Jump to content


MOVING

The forum has been moved to a new server.

Please visit QuakerParrotForum.net

and register there to participate in the community.

 

We will do our best to maintain these archives so that you can still search and find answers to your Quaker questions!


Photo

Testing Boundries?


  • Please log in to reply
30 replies to this topic

#1 Sharyn and Mr Piggy

Sharyn and Mr Piggy

    Adv Member

  • Members
  • 279 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Winter Haven, Florida
  • Country:usa

Posted 25 April 2014 - 12:26 PM

So, I've had Mr P now for almost 4 months. We have certainly been thru our ups and downs.  I thought we were over most of the issues. Apparently I am wrong.

 

Here is what is happening, brand new, starting today.

 

I have always required that Mr P step up onto my hand to come out of his cage. I never force him to come out, but I feel as though he needed to rely on me to transport him from his cage to his playstand, due to some of the bad habits (like monsterous cage aggression) that he had when I adopted him.

 

After some pretty bad bites the first few weeks, we settled into a nice routine. When Mr P is on his lower front perch, that is the signal that he wants to come out. I open the door to his cage, tell him to step up and he comes right out. Sometimes if he can't decide what he wants to do, I just rest my hand against the bottom perch, at a non threatening distance. 99% percent of the time, after thinking about it for a few seconds, he comes over and steps up. He comes out, we are good. We have done this every morning for the last 4 months. Mr P knows that sitting on the front bottom perch means he wants to come out. I do not bother him when he is on his food dishes or on the back perch. That is his signal to me that he wants to be left alone. He has gotten so used to stepping up to come out that I can even open the cage door and he normally will sit there and wait for me, not even trying to climb out on his own.

 

Until today. This morning, I opened the cage door as usual and rested my hand on his perch. I asked him to step up, etc, same as every other morning. He put his head down in what I call "bull charge mode", and obvious sign he was in a mood. I rested my hand on his perch for a few seconds, he never came over to me to step up so I closed the cage door and went about my business. I made breakfast and he started hollering YUMMY YUMMY and ran down to the bottom perch. I opened the door, asked him to step up and  he backed away. I closed the cage door and walked away. Next attempt, awhile later, I open the cage door, put my hand in, he steps ONE foot on my hand, removes it and backs away. Cage door gets closed, I walk away.

 

Now it's lunchtime and MR P has sat in his cage all morning. I make lunch and he is back to hollering YUMMY YUMMY. Here we go again.  I open the cage door, rest my hand on his perch and wait for him to step up. Instead, he tries to climb up the side of the cage and slide out towards the top of the door, bypassing my hand. I close the cage door and walk away. A few mins later, we try it again, and he tries ONCE AGAIN to come out, bypassing my hand.

 

So, cage door is closed and Mr P is in his cage and has been all day. I know a lot of you all just open the cage and let them come and go as they want, but I do not do, never have and don't want to start!..

 

So, I have to wonder, what is his problem? Why would he all of a sudden get the idea that he can come out without stepping up? all I can think of is that he is testing me? But why would this even occur to him, I have never done this. I'm the only one who lives with him so no one else has just opened the door and let him out.

 

It just confuses me as we have had a super week, with him being really cuddly and affectionate. I've gotten cuddles and purrs and he has even been climbing on my chest and tucking his head under my chin (without biting). I just dont get it?

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 


  • Allee likes this

#2 cnyguy

cnyguy

    Adv Member

  • Members
  • 3,396 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Syracuse, NY
  • Country:United States

Posted 25 April 2014 - 08:19 PM

It could be that Mr. P. is thinking, "I wonder what will happen if I just climb up the outside of the cage instead of stepping on her hand." Or he may be thinking "I can climb out of here all by myself-- I don't need any help." Or he may just be trying to confuse you. biggrin.png Ralph does things like that now and then too.


  • Allee and Sharyn and Mr Piggy like this

#3 Sharyn and Mr Piggy

Sharyn and Mr Piggy

    Adv Member

  • Members
  • 279 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Winter Haven, Florida
  • Country:usa

Posted 25 April 2014 - 09:08 PM

Well, unfortunately, when it was time to change out his food and water for the day, he was sitting on top of his food dish. I had to take a perch and have him step up on the perch so I could take him out of his cage to give him fresh food and water. I HATE doing that, I really do. He bit the HECK out of the perch, glad it wasnt my hand. But then, after he was on his playstand and I was done changing out his food and water, he stepped up and we shared a snack.

 

Then, he didnt want to go back into his cage for the nite and I had to use that durn perch again. I put him to bed early tonight and am crossing my fingers that he is in a better mood tomorrow. I hate forcing him to do stuff :(


  • Allee likes this

#4 Allee

Allee

    Adv Member

  • Members
  • 793 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Country:USA

Posted 26 April 2014 - 08:19 AM

I agree with both of you, I think Mr, P. is testing boundaries, changing the rules, demanding independence, trying to confuse you, etc...
I think you handled it well. I hope Mr. P. wakes on the right side of his perch today. :)
  • Sharyn and Mr Piggy likes this

#5 Sharyn and Mr Piggy

Sharyn and Mr Piggy

    Adv Member

  • Members
  • 279 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Winter Haven, Florida
  • Country:usa

Posted 26 April 2014 - 09:27 AM

Thanks. He didnt. He slept really late, so I thought maybe he was just tired. Same deal this morning. I put my hand in his cage and although he didnt bite me (I *do* give him credit for that) he did actually take his beak and try to push my hand away. Unfortunately, today is cage cleaning day and he had to come out of his cage so I can clean it. So, I got out my trusty spare perch and took him out that way.

 

I can't tell you all how much i HATE doing that, but I am running out of paitence with this behavior. If this was his first week here and he didnt know me, that would be one thing, but it's not like he doesnt know the routine. Heck, taking him out means freedom and yummies for breakfast. I don't understand why all of a sudden he is rebeling. And, like with a toddler, there is only so much one can take before you have to lay down the rules.

 

While he is out on his playstand, I will have him step up a lot and give him lots of cuddles and attention (like I usually do) and hope this behavior just resolves itself.


Edited by Sharyn and Mr Piggy, 26 April 2014 - 09:29 AM.


#6 Siobhan

Siobhan

    Adv Member

  • Members
  • 9,090 posts
  • Location:Central Illinois
  • Country:USA

Posted 26 April 2014 - 02:46 PM

I think you're forgetting that Quakers are the boss, not the humans. LOL Why don't  you want to just open the cage and let him come out if he wants to and stay in if he wants to?



#7 Sharyn and Mr Piggy

Sharyn and Mr Piggy

    Adv Member

  • Members
  • 279 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Winter Haven, Florida
  • Country:usa

Posted 26 April 2014 - 03:07 PM

Siobhan,  Mr P came to me extremely cage aggressive to the point where he would lunge at me even if I opened the door of the cage. After talking to some folks, it was suggested that I teach Mr P that he has to step up (which he already did fine as long as he was out of AND away from his cage) to come out, something he loves doing. In this way, he would eventually understand that the reward for allowing me to put my hand into his cage, and his getting on it, was coming out and being able to be on his playstand. I liked the idea. I can't let him just come out and hang out on his cage or he is un-handleable. (not sure if that is a real word).

 

This has actually been working GREAT after he understood that he wasnt coming out without stepping up. Once he steps up, I take him away from his cage. He can't reach his cage from his playstand. This routine has changed his attitude about his cage and has allowed me to put my hand in, change his food dishes as long as he isnt on them etc, without losing chunks of my fingers and hands.

 

We have established that the front perch is his perch to stand on for coming out. When he wants to come out, he stands on his front perch, I open the door, I offer him my hand, he steps up on it and all is good. If he is not on his front perch, I respect his space and do not try to make him step up. It's respect for me (the one that feeds him) and respect for him as another being with feelings.

 

Honestly, this has been working for months, so not sure what happened. We'll see how long it takes him to remember that he has to step out to come out.

 

I understand that different folks handle their parrots different ways and a lot on here don't agree with me on this, but opening the cage door and just allowing him to come out without relying on me, just doesnt work for us :)

 

Thank you, though, for the suggestion :)


  • Allee likes this

#8 Siobhan

Siobhan

    Adv Member

  • Members
  • 9,090 posts
  • Location:Central Illinois
  • Country:USA

Posted 26 April 2014 - 11:48 PM

Jade is cage aggressive, but nothing like what she was when she first came to live here. I got a lot of nasty bites when I cleaned her cage. My arms looked like I'd been playing with a wood chipper. I kept grimly on and told her everything I was doing and it took some time, but now I can clean and fill bowls and even scrub the inside of the bars -- with her careful supervision, LOL. She won't step up unless she's in a pickle, like the time she flew into the hallway and it was dark in there and she couldn't figure out how she got there or how to get out. She gives kisses if she's in the right mood, and I can hold out one finger and she'll bat it with the top of her beak, but I have to wait for her to invite me to do either of those things. I can't handle her at all. If she had to wait to come out until she stepped up, she'd spend her entire life locked in her cage. She wasn't handled in her former home at all, and at this point I've given up that she'll ever be cuddly, though we make tiny bits of progress here and there. She flies to my shoulder occasionally and pulls my hair.


  • Allee likes this

#9 Allee

Allee

    Adv Member

  • Members
  • 793 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Country:USA

Posted 27 April 2014 - 12:37 AM

I think it's fantastic that the parrots on this forum are as different as their humans. What works for some doesn't work for others. The great thing is being able to share different ideas. I think you've made amazing progress with Mr. P. I'm sure the two of you will work out your routine very soon and both of you will be happy again. :)

Harry was incredibly cage aggressive, becoming a serious plucker and showing signs of mutilating (me or herself, she wasn't picky). I was told I should clip her wings. I stopped a guy right before he clipped them. He thought I was certifiable and told me I would never be able to handle her. I told him to unhand my bird. The way I saw it and saw her, she had so very little left to lose. I let her keep her wings. She loves to fly and I love watching her. I wanted to see her happy and healthy, boundaries weren't that important. I was delighted when she learned to fly to me on command, go back to her cage top, go inside her cage and so many other things. I let her get by with a lot, but she isn't allowed to attack anyone, human or parrot. She may never step up to my hand and that's okay with me. Her most common offense now is hitting me in the head with her feet while flying. She doesn't get a time out for that and it makes her very happy, she usually giggles like a little girl after an air strike.

Zeke doesn't have aggression issues, in eight months he's only bit me a couple of times and never drawn blood. He was however, absolutely terrified of human contact. I felt so bad for him. He had been confined to his cage for his whole life, he was fed well, but had little human contact. We watched him learn to fly, he was so bad at it, but it was amazing to watch. After a short flight he would pant and need to rest, but he does just fine now, although he isn't quite the ace pilot Harry is. I think the exercise is healthy for him, he was a little plump. Harry spent lots of time on her cage top in time out for a while and a few times she was sent to her room to chill, cussing for all she was worth, but it worked, for us. Harry, Zeke, and Sweet Pea come out every day now and share a play area. I can't believe how well they get along. :) Zeke is the sweetest bird we have. He will let me pet him and he is learning to step up EVERY time I ask him too. Every bird has a story, all different, and when you think about it, most are pretty amazing.

Tomorrow is the bird show, right? Try to show more restraint than I did, but have fun and please post pics when you get home. Mr. P. will be so happy he'll forget how stubborn he's been. :)

#10 Sharyn and Mr Piggy

Sharyn and Mr Piggy

    Adv Member

  • Members
  • 279 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Winter Haven, Florida
  • Country:usa

Posted 27 April 2014 - 07:03 AM

lol yes, bird show is today. I am ready but it doesnt start for another hour and 1/2 so I have to wait ...

 

It is wonderful that everyone can share ideas and suggestions but as you all have said, each bird *is* different.

 

If Mr P had never stepped up to come out of his cage, or was hand shy or  this was our first week together,  forcing him to step up to come out would be inhumane.

 

However, this has been part of our routine for months now. My gut feeling (and sometimes you just have to go with your intuition) says that he is just being a "butt-head" as my b/f says.

 

Yesterday was cage cleaning day, and I decided to re-arrange everything as well in preparation for a new cage. I figured if he was a bit shaken up with his surroundings in his old cage, moving to a new one wouldnt be that big a deal. Also, I was advised to rotate stuff around in his cage to keep the cage aggression down. While we rotate toys every week, I hadnt changed perches or food dishes around.

 

Anyway, this morning he is still not wanting to step up to come out. I am meeting the foster coordinator at the bird show today and she has 5 quakers. I think I'll talk to her and see if I can get a handle on this sudden change in behavior.

 

Otherwise, I will keep doing what I have been. Mr P and I have a pretty decent bond, so I am thinking this may be a phase and he just needs to get over it.

 

I will post pics of my bird show goodies after I get them home :)



#11 Sharyn and Mr Piggy

Sharyn and Mr Piggy

    Adv Member

  • Members
  • 279 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Winter Haven, Florida
  • Country:usa

Posted 27 April 2014 - 05:08 PM

So, here we are at the end of the day. The bird show, as far I'm concern, was sort of a waste of time. Although I did get pumpkin seed, and a bunch of little bell type toys (5 toys for 10.00) that is ALL I was able to come away with.  They did not have the tabletop playstands I wanted and the cage that I wanted was sold and they only had one of them. So, all the high ticket items that I wanted to get there, I am going to have to order on line. The cage was 25.00 cheaper at the show. Makes me wanna cry.

 

On the bright side, when we got home this afternoon, whatever had been up Mr P's you know where, at least for now, is gone. I opened the cage door, he stepped right up and came out and enjoyed some of the pumpkin seeds I bought him at the show.

 

Now I'm going to get onto Amazon and order the stuff I was not able to get...most of it! :(



#12 cnyguy

cnyguy

    Adv Member

  • Members
  • 3,396 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Syracuse, NY
  • Country:United States

Posted 27 April 2014 - 07:54 PM

Glad that Mr. P. is back to his old cooperative self again-- hope it stays that way. smile.png Too bad about the bird show though-- seems like a big disappointment. sad.png


  • Sharyn and Mr Piggy likes this

#13 Allee

Allee

    Adv Member

  • Members
  • 793 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Country:USA

Posted 27 April 2014 - 09:59 PM

I'm sorry to hear the show wasn't what you expected. Pumpkin seeds are a popular treat with my birds. It was the first thing Harry took from my fingers without reaching around the food to clamp down on a finger.

I am very happy to hear Mr. P's knickers are no longer in a twist. :)

#14 Sharyn and Mr Piggy

Sharyn and Mr Piggy

    Adv Member

  • Members
  • 279 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Winter Haven, Florida
  • Country:usa

Posted 28 April 2014 - 06:58 AM

Well, as promised, here is the stuff I did buy. I spent about $20.00 on all of this, I forgot about the swing I bought and the perches. However, I did order Mr P's new cage, playstand and food dishes last night when I got home. Oh...include a bag of pumpkin seeds in this pic, which I forgot to do

 

 

Attached File  birdshowstuff.jpg   86.49KB   0 downloads


Edited by Sharyn and Mr Piggy, 28 April 2014 - 06:59 AM.

  • Cindi&Jeriel likes this

#15 Allee

Allee

    Adv Member

  • Members
  • 793 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Country:USA

Posted 28 April 2014 - 08:52 AM

Very nice! I bet Mr. P. will really like those perches. Let us know how he feels about his swing. My birds are really weird about swings for some reason.

#16 Sharyn and Mr Piggy

Sharyn and Mr Piggy

    Adv Member

  • Members
  • 279 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Winter Haven, Florida
  • Country:usa

Posted 28 April 2014 - 09:53 AM

Well, after pulling everything out of the bag to take a picture, I realized I bought 2 toys that are exactly the same! Duh.

 

Fortunately, after hanging one of the duplicates on Mr P's playstand, he seems to like it. (like it = grabbing the clasp and shaking it so the bells ring)

 

Im saving the perches for the new cage, which will be here tomorrow. Although I am not sure it will get put together when it gets here since I have to do it myself.



#17 Siobhan

Siobhan

    Adv Member

  • Members
  • 9,090 posts
  • Location:Central Illinois
  • Country:USA

Posted 28 April 2014 - 11:01 AM

I often buy toys that are the same. But then, I have a whole flock and I don't want anyone to get jealous. LOL Also, if he really likes that toy, he'll want one in his cage and one on his playstand. 


  • Sharyn and Mr Piggy likes this

#18 Sharyn and Mr Piggy

Sharyn and Mr Piggy

    Adv Member

  • Members
  • 279 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Winter Haven, Florida
  • Country:usa

Posted 28 April 2014 - 11:31 AM

And that is exactly what I will do with this one. Matter of fact, here is a short video of Mr P playing with his brand new fastener that I bought at yesterday's bird show. Oh. Wait. I mean, new *toy*

 

http://youtu.be/Q229t7sJXXM

 

He has been at this for about an hour now :)

 

He figured out that shaking the fastener makes the bells ring. He is all about the bells


Edited by Sharyn and Mr Piggy, 28 April 2014 - 11:32 AM.


#19 Jan Cullen

Jan Cullen

    Adv Member

  • Members
  • 1,688 posts
  • Gender:Female
  • Country:Sydney, Australia

Posted 28 April 2014 - 04:19 PM

That's soooooo cute  smile.png


  • Sharyn and Mr Piggy likes this

#20 LindeeV

LindeeV

    Adv Member

  • Members
  • 724 posts
  • Country:U.S.A.

Posted 28 April 2014 - 05:33 PM

I love that video. And he stops once in a while to look at you and make sure you are still watching him.

 

Glad he got over his "snit". My birds get that way for a couple days, and then go back to normal, so who knows what causes the behavior? But if your instinct is that he is "testing" the boundaries, you're probably right.

 

Anyway, glad he's being sweet again, and he's adorable!


  • Sharyn and Mr Piggy likes this