I know that I don't visit the forum nearly as often as I once did...working FT, going to school FT and having a husband and a 6 year old doesn't leave me much time...

BUT...I know that when I need advice regarding my fid..this is the best place to come...but anyway....

My husband works 3rd shift, so he sleeps (or tries to sleep) during the day...

I have tried everything that I can to get Siah to be quiet but I can't...and he finaly said either he is quiet or he has to go.

Now this isn't just chirping and mumbling to himself as they so often do...this is flat out screeching! Like I hear him 100 yards down the street screeching. If I am in the room with him or he is with me he is fine...but Heaven forbid I am out of his sight. And, this goes on ALL DAY LONG.

I don't know what to do. We are really bonded, I mean that is MY guy...and I don't think that I could bare moving him out and letting some stranger have my kid...but what do I do? I can't very well bring him to work. Hubby has resorted to covering him during the day and even then it RARELY helps...I can't quit my job...

Like I said...if he is on me or I am within his sight, all is well. But, as soon as he is not or I am not...he gets pi$$ed!!

What do I do...if I were to rehome him I know how traumatic that would be for him and I don't think that the new parronts would tolerate him like I do (you know..the things we do for our fids...)

I am at a complete loss...

Please help. He said that if I don't correct the problem, then he will. I don't blame him. It's my fid and I have become the only one in the house that he has bonded to (even though the others TRY to be nice and play and feed him and give him treats...my husband is NOT being mean...he has never been mean to him...but he really needs his sleep.

Well my friend had the same problem last year.So i told her to put a small piece of material she used fleece under her shirt tucked in her bra.Wear it all day that way it would get her scent on it..Then she placed it in her fids cage & he was very content & stopped screaching all day..It's now his Birdie security blanket.she takes it out when she gets home & puts it back when she's leaving..I wish you the Best of luck..And keep us posted..

Ugh...that is such a hard spot to be in. I am so sorry. We went through a similar situation with my qp Casey, and I did end up rehoming him. It ended up being a better situation for him and for us, and I got frequent updates on him. It's not an easy position to be in. While some may say your husband needs to just deal with it, truth be told, he lives there to and everyone needs to be able to have peace in the house.

Does he sleep with ear plugs in? My husband says it helped him. Have you ever tried a squirt bottle to stop the screaming? Put it on a straight stream and one strong (not so strong as to knock him off his perch of course) squirt in the chest along with a firm HUSH or NO SCREAMING may help as well. Good luck.

Here's hoping Cheri's idea will work. Sounds like a viable solution to a problem I'll bet lots of parronts have.Let us know if you try it!

A couple of my birds are being more vocal than usual because its spring so their behavior is out of wack.
Yet if this is an ongoing problem in your home and I am wracking my brains trying to think of ways to ease the situation.

Have you tried moving your bird into another part of the house with lots of foraging toys to keep him occupied as well as leaving a radio or tv on so he isnt feeling like he is all alone as well? It sounds like he is flock calling for you while you are not home (at least I am guessing thats what it is) and he will have to get used to it.

Another idea which will be difficult at first to get your bird used to is changing his hours so that he sleeps while your husband is sleeping. Of course this will mean he is up during the time you are home and if its dark he will need artificial lighting as well as a cage cover for him to sleep while your spouse is sleeping. I normally dont suggest this only as a last resort.

Wow...you do have a problem...And I don't think there's a quick fix for it...short of rehoming...HOWEVER...If your husband doesn't wear ear plugs I would suggest trying that first...of course that means that hearing the phone and other things is also a problem... And it sure can't hurt to try the security blanket thing that Cheri suggested...Then you can start working on the flock calling when your out of site.

I'm facing a similar problem with my newest rescue...it drives me NUTS but we're working on it. And even though "experts" say using the spray bottle is mean...and a negative reinforcement... there are some things in a birds natural life that are also made so by negative reinforcement. You don't see the bird on the top of the totem pole getting there by giving out treats...its done by thumping somebody on the side of the head with his beak or pulling out a feather etc. So I feel and its my own personal feeling...that using a spray bottle to get the point across is the lesser of evils to get a point across that something their doing is unacceptable behavior...

So start with the easiest fix to begin with...then work your way through to the hardest. And keep dividing it up into smaller and smaller pieces to get to the overall problem...

My QP Cheeky was screeching alot last month now he seems much much better so I dont know if it is at times a hormonal thing. Some days he screetched for hours. I tried the water bottle squirt but hes not very big and all it seemed to do was wet him down too much so I stopped it. (the water bottle method is a good one) But yet birds will be birds so its a tough situation for you! I hope all works out ok

What you're describing is "flock calling" and is a natural method for your fid to call together its "flock"... YOU! I don't believe squirting it with a stream of water is appropriate or humane. It will only generate fear and resentment. Also, you can't "un-learn" a hard-wired instinct.

I'd suggest you either move the bird as far away from your sleeping husband as possible, or take him/her around with you as you do your daily chores.

Another choice could be a "white noise" generator for the bedroom which would lessen the impact of the fid.

Lastly, ultimatums are dangerous, because a lot of people may choose the bird!!!! (I'd be understanding but firm with your husband that your fid-kid isn't going anywhere.)

I had tried the spray bottle method with my sun and started liking it a bit too much and the nutty bird would flock call to me just to get a spritz! I agree I dont really think its an inhumane method and for most it will work because they relate being loud to getting wet its just that you have to be consistant with it so they dont get mixed messages.

I personally use a squirt bottle on my fids...and it doesn't make them fearful or resentful. My U2 began flock calling incessantly whenever I wasn't home or when I left his sight. When I started using the squirt bottle, yes, he would jump a little like HEY! But then he'd stop yelling and would go to more constructive behaviors like playing with a toy. Now, I usually only have to tell him Enough Jojo...play with your toys, and off he goes to play. Kind of like a kid whining for attention...the squirt would distract him and get him off track, and he could move on to something else. You'll never get him to be completely quiet, and you shouldn't even try. However, he also needs to learn there are limits to what he should be allowed to do. These birds are extremely intelligent...they can learn other ways to get your attention. They also need to learn to be independent of you and how to entertain themselves when you aren't around. That's where the squirt bottle can help, as a tool to accomplish that goal. They also know the difference between a "disciplinary" squirt and a bath. My birds know when I pull the squirt bottle out it's cause they're in "trouble" but they also LOVE to take showers with me or under the hose. My amazon even loves a misting from the same squirt bottle I use for "discipline".

As far as choosing a pet over a spouse...I don't know about that one. I've been told that as well, when I was rehoming my qp Casey. Casey screamed to the point my husband was actually suffering physical signs of stress due to the noise level, not to mention Casey's own unhappiness at not being able to be with me all the time and not being able to get the "intruder" (my husband) to leave. I cannot see choosing an animal over my spouse and the father to my child when the only reason the ultimatum even came up is because the man can't get a moments peace after he's worked 3rd shift to help support his family and keep a roof over their heads. He lives there to, and in my opinion should at the very least "outrank" the animals in the household. I couldn't even imagine attempting to explain to my child that daddy left and you only see him every other weekend now because I wouldn't rehome the bird.

Compromise is a wonderful thing, but unfortunately sometimes compromise just isn't possible. I'm not saying it's not possible in this case, it may very well be. The fact remains that everyone in the home needs to be able to at least co-exist somewhat peacefully or else it will only build resentment and problems in the long run.

I havent posted here in quite a while but i felt compelled to address this post. Im very much an advocate for trying everything, including hireing a behaviorist, and or boarding the bird during the day. Here is my big "BUt" You have a situation where #1 you have a husband who right now can't sleep.If he is driving to work he could very well be in danger of causing a car wreck. Number 2 is the bird worth damaging your relationship with your husband? Number three, you have a child. How will the arguing effect the child? I don/t know your situation obviously,so the above points maybe irrelevant to you. Obviously YOU are taking your hubbys fristration into consideration, and I applaud you for that. good luck with whatever you decide.

I understand where you're coming from with your philosophy of cruel and inhumane treatment. However...Using water does NOT hurt them...its not the same as throwing a shoe or hitting them with your hand...

Have you ever sat down and watched a flock of birds...outside...and just watched the social aspects of how they get along?? How do they go about establishing a leader...the Top bird? If one of the flock is doing something that the leader doesn't like...there's physical pressure handed out to stop the unacceptable behavior. And it gets more severe with the severity of the "crime" committed.

Yes, we are working with intellegent creatures...and even though they are capable of understanding certain concepts...that "hard wired" aspect that you referred to isn't always able to be resolved in a rational manner.

So what happens when the irrational behavior keeps taking place in this case the flock calling at in appropriate times. What would you do with a 2 year old child that keeps crying and crying because they don't want to go to bed because they want to be with you...You can't take a screaming child to work with you...you can't carry a screaming child around with you while you try and do chores at home and you certainly can't sleep with a screaming child... So what do you do...
There's lots of methods that work for different people...Some children/people move toward reward some work better to move away from pain...and get the same results...it the same in the animal world.

In the human world, how well does it work for a parent to say to their screaming two year old...Now Johnny, or Susie...stop crying...daddy can't sleep when you cry... So does little Susie or Johnny just stop crying...HECK NO...so then what do you do...some people bribe the kid to stop crying...If you stop crying so daddy can sleep I'll give you a new toy...Well great...that might work once or twice...but then what happens when that quits working...And the child wants a bigger and bigger and better toy each time or they just keep crying... Or then you have the child who is told if they don't stop crying they're gonna get swatted because daddy needs his sleep...they're told that isn't appropriate behavior and if you continue doing what your doing there are reprocussions (sp) that will come into play if you don't stop. When they don't stop...You let them know you meant business...They stop because its moving away from pain... As I said...every person every creature reacts differently.

How many mother cats or mother dogs do you see pamper their offspring by bringing them a mouse or what ever (a dog biscuit for just an example of a treat) when the kitten or puppy is doing something wrong...I haven't ever seen it happen...when a young pup or kitten is doing something inappropriate the parent swats them or bites them...Same as a parent bird does...some things don't work with "rational" thinking...Some creatures need to feel the pain of correction to learn that they don't want to do it again! And if a wild creature continues to break the rules...they get totally ostrasized (sp) from the herd/flock/insert correct term here.

I can give you another example of wild animal behavior that I personally witnessed and took pictures of not long ago, of a herd of elk at a feeding station...hay was dropped...and the heirarchy takes place...the biggest and the best take first food...then the underlings take what's left...OK...so in each pile of hay there was X number of cows and X number of bulls and X number of yearlings....to each pile there was a designated leader that who was higher up on the chain or totem pole. If one of the yearlings or lesser acted up the superior animal head butted or bit the wrong doer...if he continued to act up he was chased away from the food period to where he had to go to another pile and try his luck...

At that same feeding station...there was a group/flock of bald eagles...they were feeding off a down and dead elk...who do you think got to eat first? The superior one...he took his fill and then what was left the next in line got and so on...if a younger one tried to horn in, what happened...he got pecked and bit till he moved back and waited his turn...it wasn't like parent just said...Ok OK...go ahead...I can wait...no, he got reprimanded right then and there...bang..that's enough behave or you're gonna get it again!

Soooo...My point is...Our parrots are still wild animals...no matter how much we would love to say they are domesticated they are not. They are NOT human and only a certain amount of rationalization with work with them...Period...there comes a time when they need that peck on the side of the head or that feather pulled to get their attention and let them know who is the superior creature in the household.

I do NOT condone cruelty...not by any shape or form but Water is not going to hurt them say like a pellet pistol or hard object would...it will startle them and that's it...That's my rational for using a squirt bottle...

So Once again...I've written a short novel to get my point acrossed...but it's the only way I know how...

Extremely well said Connie! I also am now using the water bottle method with Mongo and Sally. It's my last resort, nothing else was working, in just a few short days Mongo now knows when he sees the bottle that he's in trouble and will quiet down and find something else to do immediately. Sally has basically learned from watching Mongo and has quieted down also. They still get their loud times of the day but it sure has worked in a short amount of time for us to where I'm barely using the bottle.

Let me reitterate that I am not saying don't allow your birds to do their flock calling...heavens no...They need to be allowed to be birds. Normal flock calling behavior tends to be right at dawn and right at dusk...they call for a few minutes then quiet down and either go off to forage for food or they come together to the flock and go to sleep....

Its the inappropriate times I'm referring to as to when they need a correction.

Thank you all for your replies....

I never realized that "I" had caused this...

I frequently talk to him while I am out of the room. Whistling back and forth and whatnot... I will quit doing that immediately!!! I didn't know what he was doing, I thought that he was being...well...a loud jerk.

I will do the fleece thing, give hubby the water bottle, make sure he has plenty to do and make sure that when I am out of the room I don't continue to talk to him.

I really couldn't rehome him...that would break both of our hearts...makes me sad to think of it...

You guys are great...

I'm glad to hear you're going to work with him. It is a workable thing to a degree, but it takes time. Just gently remind your hubby that if he gets upset or frustrated, your fid will pick up on it and they will just feed into each others frustrations. Does he scream when your hubby is in the room to? If not...maybe you could move a cage into the bedroom where your hubby is? I know with my guys if they can see me sleeping and I tell them I'm going to take a nap before I close my eyes, they usually let me sleep. Just an idea, and it may not work.

No he's funny (Siah that is)..it's like he has radar on me...if I am in the room...all is well...I step out of sight...the world is coming to an end...

Crazy bird...

And yeah...he could give a poo less about the others in the house...it's just me.

No...don't quit talking to him...just don't allow him to scream

You're doing the right thing by letting him know you're still there...but he needs to learn the appropriate call...a whistle or a word...not just screaming. And he need to learn that he doesn't need to do it over and over...

If you whistle or talk to him and he quiets down...tell him hes a good boy...then be quiet for a few minutes and see if he starts to squawk again...if he does give a whistle or what ever...make it the exact same thing every time...so he learns that is your return flock call...

Its OK if he answers you...just not repeatedly over and over louder and louder...

What you might also try is do short periods... where you tell him you're going bye bye...or what ever...but you'll be back in just a few minutes ..then leave the room... stay out of sight for a few minutes and don't make any noise then before he can make any noise himself...show back up and say...I'm back! See I'm back... Then the next time you leave the room...tell him...I'll be right back, leave the room and be out of sight for a few minutes longer...then pop back in excited before he can make noise...keep extending the time a little each time...If he squawks before you can come back in..pop up say NO stay quiet and squirt him...or if someone else is in the room have them with the spray bottle squirt him and tell him no stay quiet...but the key is consistency... he's got to associate the squawking as bad behavior and get the squirt instantly for him to relate the correction to the reaction...or consequence...does that make sense...

Its like if you have a dog...and he poops or pees on the floor, if you don't see him do it and bring him in and scold him sometime later...he has NO idea what you're correcting him for...but if you scold him the minute you see him do it and make it known that's not correct behavior he figures out that if I poop or pee on the floor I'm gonna get yelled at or what ever the correction/punishment is... but if you allow him to get away with it when you see him do it and just go clean it up with out saying anything to him...you've just undid what ever you may have accomplished to begin with.

Remember when ever they do something the way you want them to be excited...and use happy tones...when they do something undesirable in this case screaming when you are out of site...use a firm quiet angry tone lower pitched when you say...NO stay quiet or be quiet. as you have the spray bottle shooting!

Hope that helps clarify ...that's what's worked for me...

All covered by our Fid friends I reckon. I just wish you luck and hope it works out so you can keep your guy!

I shut my bedroom door and the bird room door turn my fan on high and I can't here a thing.

Herbie used to flock call ALL the time...I would be driving down the street and I could hear him! So I started itentionally leaving the room and wait for him to start. Then I would whistle to him...just once, then he would stop for a few seconds but start right back up so I would whistle the same way to him and he would stop...eventually instead of his horrible screetching he would whistle the way I did...It took quite awhile and a lot of patience...but now his flock call is the whistle guys do to a pretty girl in the movies and is MUCH more quiet and less annoying. I must say that occasionally he will revert back to the screetching...but it is far less than before.
Good luck! I wouldn't want you to give up your fid!

get rid of the hubby seriously there's got to be something that can be done isn't there? the idea of giving him something that smells like you sounded like it would be worth a try....maybe someone else has some other suggestions. I know it's hard but I cannot imagine giving my bird up and I can only imagine what you're going through!

Man I had the same problem. I live with my parents and my father, especially, cannot stand the girls when they do their flock calls so now they live in my bedroom with me and it has just been great because they are further away from my parents.

Maybe put them in a different location? If he is in the center of everything, he is more likely to make more nose. Also, I try the girls stimulated by leaving the classical radio station on or TV. But maybe he is over stimulated where there is too much going on. Just a few thoughts

I hope for your sake you can find a way to keep the little guy.

I have ALWAYS slept with the humming of a fan on High. It is GREAT if you don't like it blowing on you turn it to the wall. It drowns out everything.

I sure have been holding back trying to understand why all the debate? Look.....this is simple.

We have a bird (a pet)
Your husband ....(your husband)

Your husband needs to sleep. What's hard to understand about that? Don't you sleep without hearing some bird screaming in your ear? Isn't he entitled to the same? Is your bird worth risking losing your husband? Why would you not want you husband to get a decent night of sleep knowing that if he didn't, his personality would be affected by this situation? If his personality is affected, he will be quite irritable, and he will not be very happy person to live with.

OK, I think I have covered all the bases. You have had dozens of suggestions. Try one, and if that does not work, try another. If after that nothing works, then clearly.......THE BIRD HAS TO GO. End of story.

I have a similar problem with Pluto screaming, however it is when he can SEE me! He is in the same area as my office and it is really the best place for him as he gets the sun there and is part of the household.

He can absolutely drive me bonkers to a point where I tell him it is quiet time and cover the front of the cage that faces me.

But I really think the water bottle idea could be fantastic and I am going to try it. Thank you.

I too work 3rd shift. Babys cage is right next to me when I sleep and is well behaved all day. Maybe that would work for you guys. Third shift is realy tough and can take years off of your life if you do it a while. so best of luck and keep us up to date.

Maybe I am repeating what somebody else already wrote, but one thing you might try is giving him more dark time to get him out of "spring mode": cover the cage a bit earlier and/or uncover it a bit later.

Plus... the bird probably senses that hubby is ticked off at him. The more ticked off he gets, the more the bird may scream. Tell hubby that he plays a part in this too; this is an interaction between bird and hubby (and/or you, if you're around; I posted this in a bit of a hurry so didn't read all posts in great detail).

Hope it all works out; is a hell of a spot to be in, I'd say. But I am certain it CAN work out!

Ange

Ok here's my two cents.....

My hubby works third shift too. When we got Georgie she was like that....all squawky as soon as someone was out of sight. He did the same thing saying if she didn't get quiet, we were going to have parrot pot pie for dinner one evening.

I ended up taking a squirk bottle and squirt her when she started, telling her daddy was asleep and to keep quiet. Sounds mean but after about a week. She'd be vocal until daddy goes to bed, he'll tell her so when he goes to give her attention. Then he's off to bed and she's either playing around or having some sort of gab session to herself when I'm in the office and the boy is playing in his room.

Don't know how it would work for you.

I like the birdie binkie idea.

I think this is part of the problem. Yes, to the average person a parrot is just a bet, but honestly, I consider my girls to be more than my pets. They are my family and being forced to give them up would be like giving up a child (not that I have any). But you know what I mean. They are not just pets to some of us here am I right? This what makes this whole hubby vs. the bird situation complicated.

Yes, I do think that hubby should get his full night's sleep and that the bird should somehow learn not to squawk when he is trying to do so. But I don't think it is fair for the bird to get pushed out of the house either.

You are definitely caught between a rock and a hard spot and my heart goes out to you and others going through this problem. It is heartbreaking. But whenever there is a will there is a way. I am sure you will find it. I had a friend that used to leave tapes playing of her voice talking to the bird while she was out. Maybe that could work??

Good luck!

I worked 7pm-7am for about 7 yrs and I am a very light sleeper..I slept with a "white noise" machine, PLUS the ceiling fan on high..Bird squalks seem to be able to be heard above all that noise..it must be the pitch. I didn't have a bird at the time, but I do know that there's no tired like working all night and then not sleeping during the day..it's very dangerous too...I remember one morning getting off work after 4 nights and didn't remember getting from work to about 10 miles down the road..very scarey.
This situation you are in is very difficult..Hubby needs his sleep..PERIOD!!! Do you know anyone who could keep your bird during the day? Covering him all day and then him being covered all night is not fair to the bird.
I have Gabby, CAG, and if I take a nap, I have to take her with me..and I whisper, "momma's gonna lie down." shhhhhhh....
She will talk for about 15 minutes but then get very quiet..works for us..but she's MY bird.Don't know if she would do the same for daddy..and ALL day would get to be a bore for the bird..
I hope you can work it out where everyone is happy...

Rebecca

I hope you find something that works. But ya know the man has gotta sleep.

Ear plugs. That's what I have to do when I want to take a nap around here... and it works fine. Eventually when he figures out I'm not going to come running he shuts up anyway.

Smart little brat doesn't yell when he thinks I'm not here... I used to say I'm going out... go shut the back door... then sneek in the basement for a nap. Worked great for a while. The little so and so eventually figured out some how I really wasn't gone though.(I think the brat can hear me walking even when I'm trying my best to be quiet, after I say I'm leaving) So now it's ear plugs, and as far away from him as I can get in the house. Works for me.

Try what the others said also. None of that worked for me... but give it a try. Ear plugs and a fan running will work wonders if not.

Birds are flock animals. They aren't solitary creatures by nature. Yelling for their flock is just something they are gong to do.

I personally believe in behaviour modification versus punishment and I view squirting a bird to promote a behaviour is punishment. I think it may work in the beginning out of fear but the bird is more likely to return aggression later when you least expect it.

Even if at times there is this behaviour in the wild doesn't mean that the bird on the receiving end is receiving the beak thump favourably and won't lash out later ... and our birds are living in captivity ...

The above is my personal opinion based on my experience with my rescued CAG and my Quaker with Mega Attitude .. also reading many articles and books written by parrot behaviourists ... doesn't make me right its just my opinion.

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In our case the screaming was their attempt to call out and find out where we are .. almost like seperation anxiety. On some occasions they would need to be in the birdroom while we did things and this is when they would call out ..

I had read a few books about modelling behaviour and decided to try to attach words to my actions so they would understand what was going on.

I started with saying "See ya Later" every time I left the birdroom. I would return a short while later and say "Hello" and let them out of their cages and sometimes offer a treat. Each time I did this I stayed away a little longer .. It wasn't long before they accepted that I was leaving but would be back and they are ok with that because they understand it.

I have left my camcorder going in the bird room while at work and after our "See Ya Later" and as soon as we leave for work they both start about their days .. foraging, tearing, eating, playing, napping, talking and no screaming. The minute we walk back through the door the playing stops and they are both waiting to come out ...

So they have attached my "See Ya Later" with everything is ok because she will be back!

It took some work but it did work ... I hope there is something you can do to work it out but at the end of the day hubby does need his sleep and unfortunetely you may be faced with finding your baby a new home ...

Wishing you the best ..

Dee,
I agree with what you said. I don't believe in any form of punishment, not with birds, at least....I find that if Gabby doesn't want to step-up and is nippy, if I turn my head and say, "no biting" just seconds later, when I offer my hand, she steps right up..It's just a matter of she didn't want to do it right then. Some people say that is spoiling them or not training them, but I totally disagree..Gabby is one of the happiest creatures I have ever seen, but I don't FORCE her to do anything...
When we first got her, I did what you were saying..Tell her that I would be right back and then I came right back..Then make it longer and longer..Now, she knows that when I leave, I WILL come back...she's so good...

I hope it all works out and you can keep your fid..

Rebecca

I feel your pain. Brady does the same thing when I leave the room. Usually he could care less who else is in the room..all he knows is Mom left and he doesn't like it! My husband works nights and sleeps all day too. I'm fortunate enough to work from home but there are times I do leave to run errands..go to lunch..movie..whatever. I know he squawks his head off when I shut the door..and I'm really not sure he stops..but I think he does. Then soon as he hears the key in the door he's at it again but when I enter the living room he shuts up. My old man must be a very sound sleeper ..cause 99% of the time he doesn't hear him. Maybe because by this time he's already deep asleep for about 3-4 hrs. I keep our bedroom door shut. We live in a two bedroom apartment. So it's not a huge home. However when I leave to go somewhere and my hubby is home..say on the weekend..he does complain that Brady won't shut up..and asks me how do I get him to quit! I'm like he doesn't do that to me..heehee! I may try the squirt bottle thing. I can't remember who posted it but yea Brady can hear me breathe sometimes I swear. If it's late on the weekend and he's ready to be uncovered..and come out to play..and he so much as hears a peep...like I get up to go to the bathroom..or my daughter gets up before me...he's squawking!
But I'm with a lot of you guys...I couldn't just give up my bird. He's like my son. If nothing worked..we'd either be moving or he'd be working another shift..or I would..or I would sound proof a room..something..I couldn't give him away unless it was for his best interest.