OK so I know some of you disagree with me on certain things but we all lover birds here and we all need to put a stop to this!

someone brought this to our attention on another forum and I thought I'd let you guys no so we can raise enough hell to get something done!
Are you aware that you can buy a pair of sun conure wings on ebay? as well as other parrot wings and complete tail you can even bid on a complete femala eclectus corpse! I would post the link and will if you want but it is very disturbing so you can jsut search I'm trying to post this on as many forums as possible so we can raise enough fuss to get ebay to say NO. they say all birds died a natural death but all birds come from one place what are the odds of that? please contact EBAY with your complaints and spread the word if they get enough complaints maybe we can fix this injustice.

here is the link don't click if you have a week stomach it nearly did mine in. scroll ALL the way to the bottom!

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?s...ntrypage=search

Words cannot express my anger. I reported every Listing I could find, Under Prohibited/banned items.
I feel like I should try to contact someone besides Ebay, but not sure who....

I contacted PETA and got a response letter back from them staing that they had contacted EBAY I also was going to see about contacting bird rescues and humane societies in the california area. My goal is to raise as much fuss as possible aboutt his issue!

My letter from PETA
Thanks for contacting PETA about eBay.

We agree that eBay should not be selling animals, products, or services that result from or cause harm to animals, so we appreciate your bringing this to our attention. We have contacted eBay to explain why such sales are cruel, and have asked that they all be ended on their site. If you have not done so already, we encourage you to also express your concerns to eBay:

While it is shocking to see bird body parts for sale on ebay, the fact is it's really no different than people selling rabbits feet, fur coats or leather items. I personally doubt that someone intentionally killed the birds so that they could sell their body parts on ebay. The birds are worth a lot more alive then dead. As far as some coming from the same place, well, to play devils advocate, we all know how quickly illness can spread through an aviary. Not to mention accidents like some sort of air pollution or food rot or something to that effect. People use feathers all the time in arts and crafts. I mean, I seriously doubt someone yanked all the tail feathers out of a hyacinth macaw that retails around $10,000 so that they could sell the feathers on ebay. Forget about the financial value of the bird...those birds are HUGE. Imagine trying to yank the tail feathers from a bird that could and would eat you alive. Not all the birds listed came from the same place...some of the skins came from overseas if I remember correctly. Again, that's no different than selling leather or fur. As far as PETA...I personally disagree with their practices and beliefs and honestly believe if given the chance they'll do more harm then good in the long run.

your certainly entitled to your opinon my opinioni s that if the birds died sell their fethers if you wish - but dismantling the bird seems horridous.

As for PETA I don't agree with them on many things but I thought this issue needed to be resolved and if anyone was going to get riled up they would.

I will admit at first I was like ok something is totally wrong but while chatting with someone (wink wink) about it I have to say it does make sense. Like Stacy said the birds are worth more alive then dead so I don't think they are hurting birds to get their feathers or whatever. I think it's something that just shocks us b/c we didn't realize it happens. yes its hard to see a birds body part online for sale but remember there are deers heads out there, there are bearskin rugs, etc. there's no difference in what these ppl are selling. that's not counting the animals that we dismantle for human consumption.......

While I don't condone what's going on...we must still remember that different cultures do a lot of things that we consider wrong. Again, I'm not condoning it but selling a whole wing is more cost effective than plucking all the feathers by hand and taking a chance of damaging the feather making it useless for resale. Lots of places buy feathers from exotics to use in fly tying for fisherman as well as jewelery etc.
Another way to slow this problem down is boycott the places that sell the the finished product. For instance...have you noticed the styles in hats coming from the UK recently? Where do you think those feathers came from...it wasn't from chickens ducks or geese!

OK...all you UKers no hate mail please...I'm only using it as an example.

I really don't have a problem with them selling feathers that have been molted I mean...I have a Whole slew of molted feathers that are just laying around. Might as well make use of a free bi-product.

But I do understand what your getting at.

I like how you said "different culture" We Texans definitly consider California another culture again no hate mail please. I understand what you are getting at I just feel bad that someone didn't respect their parrot enough to give it a decent burial. I guess it's just a cruel world we live in.It still really bothers me but I see a little bit of the other side again I still find it disturbing.

I wouldnt involve peta in anything to protect animals they dont believe in people having pets in the first place and are quick to not tell people that fact when donation time rolls around.

a recent example of
PETA and their dirty hands in the news
http://dogpolitics.typepad.com/my_weblog/2...is_dead_me.html

and what they ended up being found guilty of 'littering'
http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?...&ran=189171

given what others have already stated its really no different than someone selling leather or furs although I def wouldnt buy it but I am pretty sure its legal as long as it isnt an endangered species as well as people getting use out of it to create jewlery etc.... not that its right and yes I do wear leather shoes.

OK guys I let my word heard here so it looks like I will be leaving. I thought surly the people that thought I was an irresponsible bird owner for not trying hormone shots on my cockatiel would think it was alot more irresponsible to be mutilating birds for money. I guess I was wrong thank you everyone that did report them. And I reapeat I do NOT support PETA but neither do I support this practice and I thought they would be able to raise a fuss about it.

Every poster here has valid points. I was just sickened to see the bloody neck of that poor yellow bird. I like the optimism in thinking they died of natural causes, because they are worth more alive than dead. But what if they are sick, or have been abused and are mean? The fact is, no one really knows the circumstaces of these birds deaths, and in my opinion, ebay should not be selling complete wings or carcasses. A feather or two is one thing, but...
In my hometown several years back, two boys broke into the small zoo, taking and slaughtering a Bald Eagle and some other birds to sell the feathers. They were caught.
I am afraid if this is allowed, what is next? Remember those stuffed kitten toys that were made from real kittens?
And yes, I am a hypocryte... I am a carnivore with a leather jacket. Yet I, personally, still don't want to see bird body parts on the worlds biggest marketplace. I can't help but think it encourages wrongdoing.

Its your choice if you want to leave or not but I am asking you to reconsider. We are a large group of people with alot of different opinions and ways of doing things. Please try not to let comments go deeper than they really are. I dont think anyone ever said you were a bad bird owner (at least I hope not) and suggestions were just given and thats all. The nice thing about suggestions is that you can do them or choose not to. Bottom line is that you know whats best for your bird.

In re to the ebay stuff there are mixed opinions on it..nothing more nothing less and I hope that you do not think anyone is attacking you. I thought it was a nice discussion and a nice topic.

Once again please reconsider?

Kelli, there's no reason to leave. I have no idea what you are talking about about the hormone shots for your bird...I must have missed that post. I'm sorry someone suggested you're irresponsible for not trying hormone shots, but I honestly don't know anything about that. If I offended you, I apologize. I just know that not everyone considers the parrots like we do. I personally wouldn't purchase a dead birds wings, but I guess having worked in rescue I see so much cruelty that it just doesn't affect me like I used to. Selling the dead birds wings and body parts is callous, yes, but I don't know that I personally would consider it cruel unless they were killed specifically for that purpose or if the birds were tortured to death or something like that. Again...if I offended you I apologize.

Oh I totally agree with that...I'm totally against cruelty to animals...And I don't believe EBay should be allowing full body parts to be auctioned off. And the thought of someone intentionally killing an exotic to sell the feathers is horrible. But as I said, different cultures believe differently than we do. Since EBay encompasses more than Just the United States its going to be hard for them to police it.

Kelli, I'm not disagreeing with you... I think an agency better to get involved than PETA though is the ASPCA.

Well put, Impy.
We can all have oppposing opinions, and until the opposers began opposing, I only saw the ugly and bad side, not considering the other possibilities.
Of course, I still think it is a bad practice for ebay,and I think it is wrong, but truth is, if not ebay, it will be somewhere else.
Sad but true.

Thanks its like I have mixed feelings on many levels. It creeps me out going to my hunter friends homes for example and they have deer heads etc hanging on their walls. But then again I have a coyote skull that was given to me by my native american friend that they put intricate beadwork on it etc...I havent hung it up (the only thing close to being on an animal is the horse shoe I have hanging over my front door but thats an irish thing) but its so beautiful and it was a gift from the heart and I am sure its insulting that I never hung it up.
I cant say it doesnt bother me to see such things for sale on ebay tho because it does but I guess my feelings have alot to do with what my mother taught me about picking and chosing my battles wisely? If that makes sense?

I'll chime in..

1. The killing of birds just for their parts in a lousy thing to do... I don't condone it.

However, that being said...

If these birds died of natural causes, selling the parts doesn't bother me. Why? Because for every naturally dead bird that gets sold, there is one less that will be demanded from poachers. Would I dismantle and sell my birds if they died? Of course not. But these birds may not have been pets. They may have been from a free-flying sanctuary.

If gathering up molted feathers or selling birds that have passed away of illness, drafts or other natural causes helps put poachers out of business and conserve the wild population then I think it could overall be a positive thing. But the problem with Ebay is that you'll never know if that's the case... and I don't think animal parts should be sold on Ebay because of what these birds could have died "naturally" from. PBFD comes to mind as does Macaw wasting disease. Selling these parts on Ebay into the hands of inexperienced and uninformed consumers could (and likely would) wind up starting new pockets of disease around the country and around the world.

Hmmm...I hadn't thought of that Jamie. Good points.

I have to agree, it is quite disturbing to see "parts is parts" up for sale. Would I do it...most likely not, but if it was natural causes...okey dokey. As it was pointed out, I would much rather see that than people hunting wild birds and killing them for their "parts" to sell. It's not much different than seeing mounts of other animals on auction sites.

As to a "Proper" burial...that's a human thing...you don't see it happen in nature. I do try to bury my pets, but it's for ME...not for them...I paid them the honor and it helps easy my soul.

PETA...GGGGRrrrrr is all I have to say.

To each their own...and I have to say I am rather impressed with you folks!!! I figured this thread would get all sorts of "wonky" but THANK YOU for keeping it to the topic and not the poster. GOOD WORK!

Great post Andie. I'll just say DITTO.

I wonder if ebay has done their due dilligence. Many of our parrots are endangered in the wild. Are there not laws to stop the sale of protected/endangered species body parts. You can't sell of trade tiger skins, ivory, bear parts, eagle feathers etc.

Personally I don't think it's ethical or right. Shed feathers fine. Actual body parts, especially without knowing how they were obtained, no.

Although it makes me sad to see some of that stuff on ebay, I have always been open minded whether I agree with something or not because everyone has their own beliefs and are surely entitled to them
...I myself wouldnt purchase a full parrot carcass, taxidermied animal etc.. but there are people who believe in doing so...they may use animals parts for religious beliefs, decoration etc......and since you never know where these things came from you cant really rule it out to be cruelty or natural death either (although I dont believe they should be selling any animal body parts)...ebay is ebay you either buy something or you dont...you can boycott the seller/s but like a few others here have said...if you stop it on ebay it'll still be happening somewhere else

there is an entire thread dedicated to this at The Perch

My quick scan of the topic shows a bird loving attorney has gotten involved. One of the posters *did* contact a humane society, and was blown off...

Wendy

Well that seems to be a different seller so for some reason bird "remains" must be a big seller.......

I said in an earlier post about the two boys breaking in a local Zoo and stealing and mutilating a Bald Eagle. When asked why, they said they could sell (I think the tailfeathers) for $100 each. (this was about 5 years ago)
On a quick search looking for that article, seems there are a lot of people doing just that. I am sure the almighty dollar motivates a lot of bird killing.
I just hope ebay pulls the posts for the wings and carcasses. That is just not right, not with any creature.
Oh yes... I might add they were charged and convicted of FEDERAL offenses, as the Bald Eagle is a federally protected bird.

Are you kidding me?? I just assumed it was only one person....

I asked Dh when he got home "If Rudy (scarlet macaw) died, would you try to sell her carcass on Ebay?" He was horrified...and asked who on earth would *buy* a bird carcass,
or the still bloody tail or wings.

I explained exactly who, and that there is a huge problem w/ parrots being smuggled in just for their feathers...which is why so many people donate their birds *naturally molted feathers*.


wendy

I didn't know that parrot feathers would actually sell for anything... how odd. People with birds just end up with feathers, right? So why isn't the market saturated if there are more birds than have homes. A very odd situation.

In general, though, I am completely for fur feather leather, whatever, being used for clothing or whatever use one can think of. I see it as- if you're going to use the animal, you better use the whole thing. IE- eat the cow, the gelatin from its bones, the hooves to your dogs, the horns for fake ivory and wear leather like you're a biker. Conversely, if you aren't going to use the whole animal you have no business using any part of it.

That said- I can't see eating a parrot or using it in any way as they are pets, and taxidermy of pets gives me the creeps. It brings back childhood hatreds of Cruella De Vil etc. Or that Family Guy episode with Brian's mother being stuffed and used as a table.

I agree with UZ I dont think its ethical or right.
But I see no reason for you to leave Kelli!

I will certainly give E-Bay a piece of my mind. Selling parrot skins- well that's just sick. The individual feathers okay if they fell out but the skins that is very disturbing to me. How did they get them? I tend to think maybe they were killed to sell. Who knows? They should not be sold. It could cause a inocent bird to get killed for his skin or feathers and that would be tragic. I think if enough people complained to E-Bay the wouldn't except bird body parts to sell.I hope we all put our complaints to Ebay about this.It's our duty as bird and animal lovers.

Yeah, but we buy chicken parts all the time...and in a lot of these native countries...these birds are more or less chickens...I was doing a bit of research and here in Washington, it is legal to eat your parrots. now, I don't know that I'd want to be trying to do that...it would be quite an expensive meal I'm not sure about other States, but that in it's self is kinda creepy. I guess it's because we are such a soft hearted nation, that anything that is cute and cuddly isn't edible...LOL After bottle feeding my first calf...I had to quit eating beef for a couple of weeks...LOL

But I do have to say Alusdra, you make some really great points. It is the thought of most indigenous peoples, that the ENTIRE critter is used, if slain. And I say this about indigenous people from all continents. I watched a film in my last sociology class about the last known hunter/gatherer tribe in Africa...FASCINATING!!! But very much the same aspects as with North American Natives, the ENTIRE creatures were used, I would go to say MAYBE a single digit percentile of waste. It is just amazing. So would this make them the origionators of Bologna?

Well it definately wouldn't be a good practice to eat our parrots. Especially if they have been treated with one of the many antibiotics that our parrots are treated with that are not for use in farm poultry. If those antibiotics are used in the parrot that is going to be dinner, we are looking at a whole new can of worms. There are certain medications, antibiotics for one that are not to be used on livestock. Livestock being critters that are raised for human consumption.



Who would have known? Who knew?

yes it is sad, i saw a QP corpse on ebay, i almost had a heart attack. but then again I realized that people actually by this stuff.I guess there's a reason for everything. but your right its just like selling a rabbit's foot and other things. But as a qp owner who in their right mind would buy a dead bird. unless its like a museum thing, the museum of natural history has a bunch of stuffed birds in an exhibit and they have an educational purpose.

still im not too happy bout it.

I'm more inclined to believe that either the dead birds came from overseas and were not raised as pets, or they died for some other reason in an aviary here in the states. Even non pet quality breeder birds are more monetarily valuable dead than alive. Overseas in many countries, these birds are actually considered a food source to many people, much like we consider chickens or dove or duck. Not my cup of tea, but I still just cannot believe someone is raising these birds simply to kill them and sell their body parts on ebay or through other avenues. It's just not financially viable, at least not here in the states. To me, unless the animals are endangered, it's really no different than going to the grocery to by a chicken or roast or turkey for dinner or buying a down comforter or leather shoes.

A lot of people consider animals to be commodity's. If the animal cannot pull it's own weight, whether through working or breeding, it's not worth having around. I don't believe that, but many people do, especially in other countries. Some people actually like having dead stuffed animals or skins in their homes. Not me...but many do. My uncle has a room dedicated to dead animal skins. He has deer heads, stuffed squirrels, and a stuffed fox he found as road kill. My grandfather had a couple of fish he had stuffed hanging on his walls. To me, gross, but to them it's decoration. Then again, they ate the meat, so why waste the hides or heads?

Pretty bad for us parrot lovers. I don't agree with selling the wings, carcasses, etc.. Ebay doesn't sell dog and cat carcasses do they? Some don't put birds in the same pet category as dogs and cats-I do.

As far as PETA goes I don't think those two people should have done that but like it or not, PETA gets things done. They are extremists,yes, but they get laws passed. The ASPCA is not as radical and get things done as well but PETA people are a pain in the butt for a reason. There is far less cruelty on the planet because of them. Don't let a few peoples' mistake taint the whole picture.

not all the laws PETA gets passed are good ones. Like species/breed Specific legislature. I'm not saying all of their stuff is bad...bit some of the "riders" are ridiculous, "Riders" are the conditions put on a bill.

As to the dog or cat skins, carcases...well the demand isn't there. Dogs and cats are readily available. And in other countries are considered livestock not companions.

Parrots do not have a companion classification like our dogs and cats do here in the states. By fish and wildlife, OR Department of Agriculture. They are considered Fowl at the moment...same catagory as ducks, geese, pheasants, quail and chickens. There are tons of others, I'm just using them as an example. So that could be why we see the parts of birds on ebay.

It's actually against federal law to sell dog fur, and since cats and dogs are considered family companions in this country, anyone selling their parts in a similar fashion would be run out on a rail. Their bodies can be bought however, through facilities that supply places like labs and high school biology classes. My brother dissected a cat his senior yr. They purchase the bodies from animal shelters after they have been euthanized.

In some countries dogs are raised specifically for food. It just depends on the culture and how you were raised to believe. In some cultures, eating beef is considered horrendous and rats are given status as scared creatures. In other cultures, pigs are considered dirty and therefore not viable as food sources. Personally...I love a big fat steak or pork chop, and don't even get me started on some nice crisp bacon. YUM! I wouldn't eat dog, simply because I keep them as pets and have been raised to believe they are not a food source. Had I grown up in China or something to that effect, I'd probably consider dog to be a delicacy or at least a possible food source.

here is a letter I recieved :

Hi Kelli,

I know about this -- I am on the message board that started the big stink this week. Here's the real tragedy: I personally contacted this man and asked him how his friend came by so many dead birds. He told me that he collected the dead birds over several years from friends at two breeding ranches and that between them they had about 5,000 breeding pairs. Unfortunately, what this man and his "friends" are doing is technically legal.

However, what he is doing is morally reprehensible, so one of our members has notified PETA and API, who are both active in protecting all of the rights of animals. If you would like to voice your support, I would check with PETA or API (www.api4animals.org) directly. You could also send the seller a message through eBay and complain to eBay that you find the auction offensive.

How many of you have gone to fine restaurants and seen Pheasant under glass on the menu...What's the difference between a pheasant and a parrot? Not that much actually. I personally wouldn't eat parrot but they are not that much different physically.

There are a lot of places that raise pheasants strictly for that purpose. And quail etc. Partridge dove, chuckar etc. Its a wild bird...

As I said in earlier posts...I don't condone the sale/auction of body parts but seriously, what would be the difference of seeing a Hat band of Pheasant feather or grouse etc as to seeing something made with parrot feathers?

And some how, the thought of buffalo parrot wings...just doesn't have the same appeal...

I see both sides here. Even though I can't stand the sight of a Sun Conure on there. ( and trust me that really pee's me off) Sun's are my favoritest bird in the world. Alot of people have good points on here. I will not be buying body parts or anything eles from these people but if it is legal even though gross. I guess we have no choice but to let it be.

Connie, I have to agree with you completely. 5,000 breeding pairs is a lot of birds for 2 ranches, but I wonder how many people that buy their birds from petstores are the ones complaining right now. Where do they think the baby birds come from? Most likely breeding ranches like these. Also, the birds may be well cared for, albeit not in a home or as pets, but there's no evidence of abuse or animal cruelty in selling the dead birds or their parts. The way I figure it, the owners of these operations consider these birds financial investments, and when one dies, they figure why toss the body away when one final profit can be made from it? From the conditions of the feathers and such, it appears that quite possibly the birds were properly cared for...to my untrained eye anyway. I just don't see what the big fuss is about. There's no proof anywhere that the birds were harmed or suffered in any way shape or form.

As far as PETA and other animal rights groups like them goes...man, words cannot even express my opinion of them. Yes, I attempted to contact PETA once in the past, but it was a last resort concerning actual ongoing long term animal cruelty happening locally, and no local agencies wanted to get involved (small town attitudes). I have since learned more about what they actually stand for and believe in, and I have no intentions whatsoever of ever being involved with them, no matter how minimally it may be.

Everyone here has had valid points and equally as valid feelings about the issue(s) at stake. But I would hate to think that you would leave, Kelli, because the points of view differed from your own exactly. The beauty of this site is the variety of experience, advice, and opinions from everyone that contributes. From what I've seen, this is the best site available that offers such diversity without being judgemental or cruel. You can't get that anywhere else. I won't state my opionion about PETA or E-Bay's practices because I think they fall inline with most others' on here who have already posted. But I hate to think that you will leave because of them. Please reconsider and see these posts for what they are. If people were going to be cruel or judgemental, they would have simply not given you the benefit of a reply. You are valued here, obviously, and I hope you will not be upset over our concern. Thank you for bringing this to our attention and for starting a thread that I found both enlightening and worthwhile. It's nice to have these issues brought up so that we CAN express and learn from one another. Thanks again!!

VERY well said Renee. I think this has been a very nice discussion, and I must say I'm impressed at how it's been handled so far. Not everyone will agree all the time, and that's ok. That's what makes life so interesting.

I'm wondering why anyone would even think about buying these things in the first place..?????????

Some people use them in crafts, and by purchasing the full wing or body, the feathers are less likely to be damaged before sale. The feathers can also be used for fishing lures and some people just think they're pretty as display items, kind of like a bear skin rug or a deer head or something like that.

I am just enjoying all of the posts in this thread, but I am not going to interject my two cents worth....LOL

Who uses this stuff...Well I actually know of a gent down the street, who is Native American, and he uses parrot feathers in his art, since it is illegal for anyone who is NOT native to have hawk or eagle feathers. IF he sells a piece of work it cannot contain those feathers...so he uses the parrots in their place.

Fly Tiers use them a lot.

Yep they sure do. My dad is a big fly fisherman and I've given him some of the birds' molted feathers. He uses a lot of other animal fur/feathers as well. Peacocks, deer, rabbit, ect.

THANKS TO ALL WHO COMPLAINED THEY HAVE TAKEN THE WINGS AND TAILS OFF EBAY!

I think I am going to lose my lunch


what kind of sicko would want that in the house? I am of the belief that animals do have souls, just like everything else on this planet... and deserve respect and dignity in passing too.

Actually, international (and some national) laws may make this very illegal (also selling of parts). Rabbits are not protected species. Most parrots are. Internationally, the watch on this sort of activity has been quite cranked up over the past years. Dutch TV had a serie of infomercials to tell people how "cute souvenirs" from wherever they'd been on vacation could really get them in trouble. (I am not just talking stuffed animals but items that contains parts as well.)

Ange
(who did a brief stint at the Dutch ministry that deals with these issues to do with flora and fauna, and saw the depot for confiscated items)

PS
I am not even saying that a rabbit foot won't get you in trouble with customs either.