Jake pulled a brand new flight feather, unnerved my wife but it looked like a clean pull with very little blood and Jake didnt seem to be acting odd. As he's getting in the individual flight feathers (he was very closely clipped when we got him) he seems to be having a tough time keeping them from getting tore up.

Well... since Michelle Karras of ThePoliteParrot.com lives a couple towns over I called and talked with her.. first off, what a wonderful and helpful woman she is, if you need any of her services I am happy to recommend talking to her. I told her about the vet visit where we were told that jake appeared to be picking around his vent and insides of his legs so I sent her some pictures of him and I was pretty shocked by the return email.



We feed 24/7 pellets and he gets fresh veggies each day with fruit interspersed.... he loves snap peas as a rule. If the stress marks (never heard of these before) are nutritional then we'll have to go back and revisit his diet and figure out what we may be doing wrong. If its this Giardia, then does anyone have some information on it before we head to the vet? We're disappointed that our visit to the vet (first time) was on April 3 and stress marks were not noted at all by the doc and nothing about Giardia was mentioned after she pointed out the feathers missing around vent and inside of legs. We're going to go to a different doctor this time and Ive asked Michelle to make a recommendation for us.

Oh, and at the vet visit on April 3 we ordered a DNA test... we're waiting for the results (they told us 3-4 weeks) to which Michelle felt this was really long for a Chicago area vet to have this take. So we'll find out if Jake is actually a she (which will really blow our minds if Michelle just picked up on that somehow from a couple pictures)

Your bird does look a bit rough. I would say that a new vet is a great idea. Obviously the previous one didn't know much if they didn't test for Giardia with a bird missing feathers. That's usually the first thing they check for. Did they do bloodwork? That's important, too. It is hard to tell with birds if they are sick without doing these sorts of tests. Make sure the new vet you are going to has either a lot of bird experience or (preferably) is avian certified. It sounds like his diet is good, just make sure that you're not feeding any of the bad plants like avocado. There is a big list on the main QP.com site of the good, the bad and the ok.

Thanks... the vet we went to is avian certified and her name came up in local searches, Michelle had even heard of her yet hadnt any personal experience. The vet mentioned that blood workups were available but never said anything that would indicate that Jake might currently need to be screened. We were told he was in good health, muscles good and liked the sound of the diet. We're kind of irritated now... we'll seek another doc and see how it goes. Trouble for us is that we didnt know anything about stress marks or how the heck to tell where feathers are missing.. he doesnt have any holes and has looked this way when we got him.. he got brighter after we took him home but I think his legs and such looked just like this coming home from the pet store in Nov.

I can see a few stress marks in your pics, but I really didn't see any signs of picking around the vent in those pics.Looks like it could be more feather chewing on his wings then actual picking.

I am by no means an expert but I really don't see the picking she was referring too.Stress marks can also be cause by stress.My dodger has a big long black streak on one of his tail feathers.At a recent vet visit I asked about it, the conclusion we came to was that my daughter caused it She had decided about 2 months ago to give him a bath..in the bathroom sink, water full force and COLD.While the feather is developing..any stress during that time can cause those marks as well..which it seems to have done in our case.
If you have not had him very long..the stress bars in his feathers could have come from a previous home.I wouldn't worry about them so much right now..when these feathers molt out and you see those bars on the new feathers then perhaps I would begin to hunt down the reason.
A full blood work up is never a bad idea though...perhaps it will help set your mind at ease.


In my opinion..aside from the occasional stres mark..I think he looks fine A full molt will give you better indication on feather health

I wonder if anyone else here notices any signs of picking around the vent? I just don't see it....

hope jake gets better soon
in re to giardia here is a great article on it
http://www.exoticpetvet.net/avian/giardia.html

Thanks.. We got Jake in November and I'll have to review a few of the original pictures to see if those stress marks are there from the PetCo store.

He DOES occational chew his wing or leg... its odd.. there is a screech and then you'll look to find him apparently fighting a little tug of war with leg or wing. Never looks like he's doing any damage though.

Guess our big deal is that we dont know what to look for yet.

Hope you figure out what is going on and can put your mind at ease. It is tough because even though they might talk they can't tell us what is bothering them.

Wishing you luck!

I was going over the pictures we had taken from shortly after getting him... I dont see any stress marks but his legs look just as bare as they do now. Anyone see anything else?

http://www.paratrooper.net/jake/

Well, now upon reading that...I think the vet doing a blood workup would be a good thing.The screech and then biting his leg would be a cause for concern.Perhaps something is making it itch? I would think if he is screeching right before he bites..something is bothering his leg.
As far as the stress marks...let him go through a first big molt before you worry too much.Living in at petco I'm sure can cause oodles of stress on the little one

Try looking through the gallery at other QP pics..I don't see much wrong with his legs.....

I thought a full blood panel should have been done since you got him so recently (unless you did a full one when you got him). I never trust that an animal I've just adopted is disease free until a Quarantine period and a complete screening is done. (Why? Because we brought a sweet dog home from the shelter that, 3 weeks and thousands of dollars later was cured of her multiple infections and a terror- here's looking at you, Mac Attack 'The Knife' Mackenzie) So- that's why I said that. If your vet has done all the tests previously then there is no reason to do them again, like others have said, it doesn't look too bad- but with birds the signs can be subtle. I'm surprised if the avian vet hasn't done the full panel at least once.

Our first trip to the vet was April 3 after getting him from a Petco with hatch certif showing vaccinations and the regular testing for beak and feather and one other which the name escapes me. While at the vet she said there were multiple workups that 'could be done' when we asked if she recommended, she said we 'could' do it but nothing indicated anything to her that it 'needed' to be done.

I am confused. What are stess marks(black bars). What I thought were stress marks the vet told me they are not its from grooming. When they groom themselves they take the color out of the feather-thats causes the black marks.

Does he only eat pellets? Doe he eat people food too?
Are you spending enought time witth him? I find quakers to be happier when they get alot of attention and sunggling-belive it or not-mine was like another arm. Did you get anything new in the house?

Well, I trust Petco about as far as I can throw them which, seeing as they are at smallest an enormous building is not far at all...

I am of the opinion you should do the full workup. If nothing else it will give you a baseline for the future. Of course, it is expensive. Still- better safe than sorry, better informed than ignorant, etc. Plus- I don't think Petco tests for giardia. Some people recommend you do blood tests every year just to be sure, though I think a baseline, care in exposure and a yearly physical is more than adequate.

Ditto.

Update: Just confirmed an appointment for a new vet that Michelle Karras recommended (and takes her 12 birds to) for this Saturday morning. We shall see how it goes.

Also.. Michelle sent a bunch of great articles on properly setting up cages from location to toys to perch types... great stuff.

Let us know how the appointment goes! Hope Jake is feeling better soon!

The OTHER vet just called the house and my wife informed me that Jake is officially a

Hope you're able to figure out the cause of the stress lines, so he can molt them out and be good as new!
I had a 2 hour consult with Michelle Karras back in November. (I won it on a website) and that woman knows her stuff for sure. She's one of the reasons I'm able to touch my bird Leah now. If you send pictures in to her she can point things out right away that need changes. After my consult, Leah is more confident and trusts me more. Just from adding a few things to her cage.
I give Michell Karras and A+
Tikileahsmom

She reviewed the pictures that I put here and did notice that the cage was a little spartan. She gave me a layout and I was stunned to find out that you need like 10 toys in there... and that they act just like the leaves in the trees so our birds should be able to hide in there just like in the trees rather than being exposed and in open view easily.

Redecorated and we'll see how Jake does.

When I got my very first bird years ago I was told by the breeder not to put too much in the cage for them. Sooo, I lived by that until I talked to Michelle.
She has a very good point. I wouldn't want to feel on display either all day long. When I put hideaway areas in her cage Leah would be there hiding every day until I got home from work and then I'd call her and have to search for her. Let me know this was something she needed. She doesn't hide all the time be any means, but she feels safe now and therefore when she feels brave enough to come out and see me, she knows at any moment she can hide again. It makes sooo much sense that she would be more confident with me.
I got my results from Leah almost instantly. I hope it works soon for you too.
tikileahsmom

When I put the cover over the cage last night jake was clinging to the side so I dont know if it will take a little bit before she (man its wierd to switch gears on gender) gets used to all the extras.

I setup a u shaped booda rope perch in the back corner as directed and then put newspaper in through the bars so it closes off the corner where she can tuck in... its the highest perch and has items around it.

We shall see but I have a feeling it will be better since as you said.. it makes perfect sense for them to have the ability to hide as needed.

Ya, the cover on the cage can be scary at first, but they will adjust and find it very comforting.
Keep us informed
tikileahsmom

Sorry, I meant that she's used to the cover... no issue there but it appears that she isnt comfortable with the rearrangement and slept clinging to the side of the cage rather than on a perch overnight.

I had a bird do that her first night here, but then began using the more comfy perches after that. Seems uncomfortable to hang on to the side of a cage all night. Birds are funny lil guys!
tikileahsmom

Went to the new vet and I have to say "that is one nice place!" The place is Green Trails Animal Clinic in Lisle, IL

Jade (closest to Jake that we could do for a more female friendly attitude) again got the vet once over and was found to be 99 grams and in good muscle, eyes clear, ears good and nostrils good. Confirmed picking near vent and definately inside legs.

Fecal check found no giardia but with what we told the vet she felt pretty good about administering a parasiticide (single injection) in case there is something, she even mentioned possible mites from the PetCo time that might be able to explain itchy skin etc.

Stress marks were looked at but doc said that it could have been from the time at PetCo or from the initial stress of coming to our home and settling in. Likely wont be able to make any determinations until she has run through a full molt.

We went ahead with blood draw for CBC/CHEM and that will come back on Monday.

So... after $279.50 we found a NEW vet, got an injection that might clear things up and we'll find out on Monday if the blood work is normal. At least with the blood work, it means we can board if needed since that was the only thing we were missing.

So, crossing our fingers that now things get better.

Hi Rigger,
Sounds like you've taken care of everything. Waiting for blood results for our birds is very difficult, but I'll bet everthing will come back fine. I went through a heck of a time waiting for my greys tests results. I was just sure he had a liver problem. He had been on seeds for 15 years in a previous home. Everything came back perfect!!!! I'll just bet those stress lines are from actuall stress from the pet shop and then getting settled in a new home. My sister in laws quaker got them shortly after they got him, but once he molted all is normal. Keep us informed
tikileahsmom

that is good news......lets just hope the blood work is good....

My Paulie came to me last August, I am his third home, he plucks and mutilates. He came to me with what looked like a camouphlage pattern on all his feathers!! Black bars all over them, I will post a picture of what his head looked like. Anyway I asked my vet if there were stress bars, I'd always heard about them and Paulie had certainly been through alot of stress, he almost bled himself out.

His vet said, No these are not stress bars, but the feathers are old and almost worn out, thats why they've lost pigment and look black. Now these feathers were on his head also, he can't groom the pigments off his head feathers, so I am guessing he was correct, just old feathers. As Paulie has molted he is getting the pretty green feathers again.

I also would love to see a stress bar, I've seen pictures and they seem to be less distinct than these camouphlage feathers of Paulies.

Here is a pic of Paulies head. Bren

Sorry, you couldn't see those pics very well, here are a couple of more pics of the black barred feathers. Bren

OK, last night the doc called and told us most of the blood work is in and everything looks normal. She will call and let us know when the remainder of the tests are done but it looks like she's good to go.

Yesterday she was more energetic and animated, vocal as well. We laid off the fresh food until dinner so she would eat more pellet and she did eat well at dinner.

Dont know how long it would take to see any changes from the parasite shot if indeed mites or a parasite was in her system.

Doctor Etherton called back today, rest of the blood tests came in and she’s concerned about a couple points. In her VM (she is going to call me back) she notes

• Protein and Calcium are a little low
• Uric acid is a little high

She wants to do a urine test and she mentioned checking for kidney problems. Would like to get another blood sample after fasting.

I'm coming into this way late but it sure sounds like you are definately in the right track to finding out exactly what is up with your lil one......

Rigger,
Well it's great that you got her checked out and know what's going on. The calcium and protien issue should be easily handled with diet and maybe the kidney thing will then fall into place.
Keep us informed. People learn so much this way too.
tikileahsmom