The other day, Fid Mama posted that she took her bird to the vet and he'd taken it and then when she got the bird back, the wings had been clipped too short and the nails as well. This thread is not about what had actually happened there (something clearly went wrong there). There was a brief discussion about vets who take your bird away from you.

A few days ago, I happened to end up talking with my avian vet (the senior one, widely respected) about this (sheer coincidence). Turns out he always does this too. He told me why and also said that certainly not all vets agree on it. His reason for doing this is the following.
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Birds don't like going to the vet. It affects them and it can damage the bond they have with their parront. He says he prefers the parront to come "rescue" the bird instead (from the "horrible vet") and says that that can actually strengthen the bond with the parront (which seems to be what Fid Mama also experienced?). He said that if the parrot is towel-trained, he'll let the parront wrap the bird in a towel and hand it to him like that.
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I suspect that particularly for birds that haven't been with their parront that long yet, he really has a point there. I have had another vet say something similar to me, in the past, btw. (Do I say it is easy? Hell, no! Do I say you should always let this happen? Hell, no! I think it requires a lot of faith in the vet. And it requires a vet who really listens well to what you tell him or her.)

But birds do make these kinds of assessments and connections. I remember a time when Sioux got her foot (toe, nail) stuck in a bamboo room perch that had split and freaked out completely. I tried to free her and Mohawk came to her defense against the perceived danger and bit me in the arm. So I had to grab Mo first, cage her, and then tend to Sioux. After I had rescued Sioux (no damage), Mohawk looked very carefully at Sioux's foot several times and at me (to judge my attitude/mood?), to figure out what had been going on and then clearly made the decision that I had been "good" and let it go. She really made up her mind about it. I suspect that vet visits can be really confusing to a bird, though, and not as easy to figure out...

On Friday, when I took Sioux to see the other vet (same practice, not a parront), Sioux got grabbed at some point and sorta toweled to check flexibility of neck and feet etc. Sioux was not a happy bird at first. I am pretty sure that if I hadn't had Sioux for so long (13 years is a long time, certainly with all the moving we did), she'd been really ticked off with me for me "allowing that to happen to her" (she was, a bit, but got over it, thankfully).

Just wanted to give you the above vet's input about this, as food for thought. He's good and he's a parront.

Ange

This is a great post. I think it will help some people understand why this happens.

Now, my vet doesn't remove the birds from the room, and I'm happy with that. To be honest, I'm not sure I would let a vet, that is new to me, remove my bird from the room unless I knew exactly what he was doing. It is no different then taking my child to the dr. When they are young, they don't go in by themselves. I'm right there.

With my current vet, if he wanted to take my birds from the room, I would be fine with it. Because I trust him, he knows what I like and don't like (we have different views on clipping, but I'm trying to get him to come around ). He knows that I know oodles about birds and he respects my thoughts and opinions. I know he would never clip my birds for me, unless I specifically asked him to.

Anyways, sorry for the ramble...just wanted to say that I think this is an excellent post and it may help some people understand why some vets remove the bird from the room.

My vet only takes my fids if X rays have to be done. I am sure if something surgical had to be done he would too, but he might even ask me to help with that. I have better command of my birds than anyone else can get. I can ask them to do something and they do as asked for the most part. This makes it easier for the vet. The only bird I might have to leave the room for is Paulie becuase I couldn't stand to see anyone mess with him after everything I did to get our bond.

Twiz's vet does almost everything with us in the examination room. She has taken him to the surgery to do a few things but only after telling us exactly what she is going to do. She may do this because Ree and I are very calm and don't freak out when she draws blood! (I do hold my breath.) Or maybe it's Twiz's personality. He stays very calm as well.

After we decided to allow Twiz to be flighted I thought we might be scolded. The doctor surpised us by turning Twiz loose in the room so that she could watch him fly! She said that she enjoyed it very much. I'm sure she tells every bird parront considering not clipping all the pros and cons!

My point is to talk to your vet about your wishes and their thoughts about what's best for your situation.

A lot of times, the procedures (sp) are harder on the people than the birds, and the owners stress out more than the actuall procedure. I had a woman cry when I trimmed a bird for her. Everything was going well until she started crying, then the bird went bonkers and was even harder to restrain. Another reason is that the birds want to protect their people and may struggle more than necessary, then someone could get bit or heaven forbid, the fid get hurt.

But always talk to you vet, if you'd like to witness the procedure, let him/her know.

I like to stay with my quaker when he goes to the vet and the vet likes me to stay as well cos he knows I wont freak out at anything - even when I had him surgically sexed, I waited for him and took part in his recovery. But it is really up to the vet and the person involved. I can quite understand people getting upset and it affecting the bird. But I did leave the cockatiel with the vet when she was egg bound - took her 24 hours to pass the egg without surgery. I just felt she would be warm and quiet without being annoyed by the other cockatiels.

During the initial examination, I am right there with Maxie while Dr. Sakas examines him, but when it comes to the vent, mouth swipe, and blood exam, he is off in the back. We cannot see each other. I trust Peter Sakas. He speaks all over the country and along with Scott McDonald, he is one of the most well known avian vets around. If you Google his name, the listings about him go on for pages. Hence, if you cannot trust a guy like him, who can you trust? He really is a sweet and soft hearted guy, and all of his employees are the same.

I also agree with one of the above poster, who said it is best you are not there when your bird is getting ruffeed up a bit in the lab. If you are present, then your fid might view you as partaking in the torture, and then see you differently afterwards. On the other hand, if after all of the torture is over, you are there to rescue him, then he sees you as his savior. Who the heck knows what these clowns are thinking about. However......Mattie Sue Athan tends to agree with the bird seeing you as his savior. In fact, she said for all of you people who may have a member of your family that your bird really does not like, next time your bird has to go to the vet, let that disfavored person take the bird, then upon retrieving the bird from the vet and taking him home, the bird will look at that disfavored person as a rescuer and therefore he will be cast in a totally different light from the birds point of view......Again, this is all speculation

The back of the vet clinic is where sicker birds often end up. Do you really want your bird being taken to the back for a well bird check up? I don't. A good vet will know how to handle a bird in the least traumatic manner for all concerned. The well birdie checkup should be a good learning experience for the bird owner, with an opportunity ask questions and to understand proper restraint techniques.

I once let my bird be taken to the back, and when the vet came back with my bird, he proceeded to tell me how spoiled my bird was. It really made me wonder what went on back there. My bird didn't act right for 3 days after. I will never let my bird be taken to the back again.

Bottom line, a good vet should have no problem working on your bird in front of you. As for your bird holding it against you, do you want your bird's feelings to be hurt a little or do you want to be sure your bird is handled properly?

Good valid points here. I know a dog groomer who will not work on the dogs if the parent is there. I have spent the day there and watched the difference in the dogs demeanors when the parent leaves.
They DO pick up on our fears. I have seen unmanageable dogs turn quite mellow when mommy leaves. I am sure it is the same with our Fids.

Good posts and good points. When I took Louie the vet did all his exams, but didn't towell Louie since Louie didn't try to bite him and behaved very well. I don't know if that will still be the case next year, but I agree in that the vet should be the person perceived doing all the "evil" things. I was in the room for all of it with the exception of the blood drawn. They took him in the back for that.



One thing that I do disagree about is if the vet clips the wings or trims the nails without you, as the owner, specifically requesting this. To me that is a lack of respect on part of the vet. He may suggest that it be done or ask IF it is to be done, but should never act on his own without being told to by the owner. That being said, if I were to request it, then I would make certain the vet know exactly how much I want him to trim/clip and would expect it to be done as I requested.

Lots of really good responses and very informative.
I think its only fair that vets do tell pet owners before doing any procedure even wing and nail trims because in the end we are the ones who should be making the decision since we end up paying for it!

I do understand the concept of taking birds to the other room especially if the pet owner is distressed it sometimes really distracts the vet who is trying hard to examine or do procedures on the bird. I have never seen one that has not left the option there for the owner to be in the room tho. I guess some vets are different.

Usually sick birds are quarantined from the main room in an area where they are all isolated from one another. I havent ever seen sick birds just sitting in the back room of a vets office in cages. If there are vets like that out there it might be time to rethink taking your birds there.

I just know that even at the shelter we have a quarantine room and they are so strict you cant go into the main birdroom after being in there unless you take a shower and change clothing. So I am hoping all avian vets are diligent in this too.

I think the one thing we can do is ask alot of questions to make sure we are understanding whats going to happen at the exam. It does help ward off any misunderstandings.

hugs
IMPy

I hope I never have to leave mine. When he was born and I was finally able to bring him home he came home didnt eat for a few days then when he started he got a crop infection and almost died. I had to leave him with the Vet for a few days and the procedure he chose to take wasnt what I wanted my bird to go through. Be put in a small cage under a lamp in a room by himself but its what had to be done. After a week I got to bring him home.

I can say that I had a very close relationship with my quaker Channer and never had a problem with her stepping up. Then I had to take her to the vet 3x in a weeks time and it took about 4 days before she would come to me. She was terrified of me and it added alot of stress on her when I had to give her the meds. I would be in tears in the morning as she would get by me so quickly when I openned the cage door and I just couldn't get near her after that. I'd have to coax her back in the cage to try again. This of course made me late to work for 4 days in a row and I can't tell you how frustrated I was. Not to mentioned worried about her well being. Thankfully she's fine with me again and I can give her the meds with no problems. I can't believe this girl actually seems to like the taste of the nystatin!!!!

tikileahsmom

All vets are indeed different. Not all humans get quarantined when they should, nor do sick birds. Even vets will admit to this.

Also, if there is a problem with the bird's distressed owner further distessing the bird, then the owner is the problem, not the vet.

Lastly, there is no evidence whatsoever that a bird will hold a grudge against it's owner for "not coming to its rescue." If the vet is good, there should be little to be rescued from other than a little discomfort and inconvenience for the bird.

What it boils down to is this, unless there is some specific reason the vet will not allow you in the room during relatively routine procedures, find another vet.

I once had a vet that made house calls. Everything was done right there, and she handled both birds (one of which was a very disgruntled BF) expertly, by herself.

Good points Riosdad. I have complete trust in my vet, and her confidence with birds is amazing. I know full well her comfort with birds is transferred to both bird and worried parront. That helps us all. I would not blink an eye if she took one of mine out of the room.

My first regular vet (not avian) did this...took the dogs in the back to treat them. I didn't know any different because that is what they always did when I took them there. My friend couldn't believe when I told her that they took the dogs in the back. She said hers treated her dog right in front of her.......long story short......I changed vets years ago and my vet is the same as hers now and I worship him. He is very well respected and has saved my cat from near death and her dog twice from almost dying (once from Parvo as a puppy!) He only will take the dogs/cats in the back if he is like drawing blood from their neck and he thinks it's easier for us not to see.....but he always asks first. And I trust him completely. Gotta have that rapport with your vet.