I have read in magazines (like bird talk) that nonstick pots and pans will emit a gas that is dangerous to birds. Since i have brought my guys home i haven't used them but what i was wondering is: does that only happen if they over heat and reach a certain temp or is it safe to cook with them if it is breif and i have a vent on and a window by the birds open for ventilation? just looking fro any tips from you pros out there...

Teflon is poisonous to birds and the smell of burnt teflon at an extremely high heat will kill your bird in an extremely short period of time. I *believe* (others can clarify this) that it isn't bad unless it hits a super high temperature (way higher than we would cook at). If you are you using it you have to be very careful and make sure it doesn't burn but to be on the safe side it better just to get stainless steel pots and pans.

Others will be around with better information!

It it deadly. And accidents happen so dont use it.

It's confusing because the scientific research is still incomplete -- or carefully surpressed by Dupont and other manufacturers of products containing PTFE, the chemical compound that Dupont has named Teflon. Older info says the cookware must be very hot to emit the killer gases. Newer info says the gases are released at all cooking temps, but aren't produced in quantities to kill most birds unless a lot of heat is used.

That's not at all reassuring to me, especially not for birds as small as my quakers and tiels. And especially not since much of the damage done to birds' (and small children's) lungs (and birds' airsacs) is done by accumulation -- a little damage at a time adding up to fatal damage in time.

Here is one thread containing info that might interest you: http://www.quakerparrots.com/forum/index.p...=10823&st=0

There's been no non-stick cookware in my home in the last 15 years, and the cooking is easy!

gail

Dont use them
not just because there is a risk to the parrots
but because the companies that make them are making us sick too
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/w...7/03/27/sieben/

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/w...007/06/27/pfoa/

http://www.pca.state.mn.us/hot/pfc.html


Its awful and the company is still in denial of its potential to harm us yet people who dont even live near those facilities that have been tested have those chemicals in their systems.

Here's a really good site on it. While it is true that under 300F you're probably safe... don't risk it! Birds have been killed by Teflon in light bulbs, so in a pan it's just an unnecessary risk if you can avoid it in any way.

There have been a couple of members birds that have died (in the past) from the fumes from teflon. It is just better to be safe then sorry. I had a pretty new set of pots and pans and I got rid of them and I like stainless steel better because I know it is safer for us and our FIDS.

I got rid of mine after I killed my first quaker and my blue crown conure. As well as several budgies that I had at the time.
Thought I would hate SS but really its not that big of a difference. And most of all my birds are safe.

Take this into consideration...

Dupont was taken to Court over this very issue...not relating to birds, but to people's health. Dupont lost. They had to pay millions of dollars because of the health issues surrounding using some of their products.

For me, just the fact that many birds have died from it is answer enough for me. I refuse to use it and have thrown anything with a coating on into the garbage or given them away to non-bird homes.

Thank you so much everyone!! i will be replacing ASAP!!! Everyone is such a big help on this site-very reasuring to us newbies!!

Found this about Teflon. It dose not have to over heat to kill.
Silent Killer

Every word of this article might be absolutely accurate, and Joanie Doss certainly has my utmost respect. But ... notice that it was first published in 1995. That's like the Middle Ages WRT avian medicine. It's easy to overestimate the "shelf life" of printed info about our birds. Always check out the date JIC. Again, this article might have aged perfectly.

gail

Hi, Im also a new owner to quakers. I was also wondering if Teflon had to be over heated in order to hurt the bird. I also believe in keeping the bird in another vented room while using your cook ware.

Thanks for posting the question.
Andi

My personal take on the whole teflon issue is that its better to err on the safe side. Although you will never totally eliminate teflon from the kitchen in its entirety due to the fact that most if not all ranges and ovens on the market do use teflon components in the manufacturing of such items as well as what others have mentioned coffee makers waffle makers etc....its best to keep birds out of the kitchen when cooking for a multitude of reasons as well as run the exhaust fan when using appliances etc. Teflon is even used in plumbing ie teflon tape to seal pipe joints etc. Teflon is sometimes used in microwavable food packaging. Its everywhere. So the less exposure the better the way I see it and its not so bad to cook on stainless steel pans infact I prefer to cook that way.
I have been lucky enough to find some retro things to keep in my kitchen from my parents house like a cast iron electric wafflemaker that still works great after all these years as well as a stainless steel electric griddle etc...


companies are starting to understand the dangers of teflon and are marketing teflon free such as this one
http://www.pleasanthillgrain.com/aroma_con...oaster_ast.aspx
hopefully more will get on the bandwagon as there are lots of consumers trying to break free of teflon

I think the article is still pretty good. I dont know of any avian vet who is going to encourage a client to use teflon.
There is still limited research on teflon when it comes to birds but lots done to its effects on humans and their findings are tragic to say the least. Other animal species such as polar bears who have never cooked with a teflon pan let alone burnt something in a pan in their lives have had their blood tested and found it..
http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/files/h...flon/reach.html

Nobody really knows what the long term effect is of all of the findings I know the article states that possibly all candians have PFOA in their bodies and I am pretty sure americans as well as other countries have it too.

I guess I am going to stop now because I have retired from activism long ago.

Ok, I'm going to jump on the bandwagon, LOL

I don't use Teflon, but have some pans made of Silverstone. I've done some research online about this and have gotten the same info on if it isn't used on a high heat and left to dry out or burn, then the dangers are not there. A big no-no is cooking with any non-stick pans that have signs of wear and tear, and chinks and scratches caused by metal utensils. I've already thrown out 2 small frying pans that were in terrible shape (should have done that long ago). Also read that turning on the stove exhaust fan while cooking with Silverstone reduces risks. I am in the process of educating the men in my home to use caution when cooking and use the exhaust fan, especially the young adult men, who tend to be brain-dead with regard to thinking of anyone but themselves! I do not want to put my bird at risk, so am in the process of replacing my Silverstone pans, one by one. I already had a few stainless steel pans, so I did have a head start.

I'm taking whatever steps I can to reasonably ensure the safety of my new little fid. As was stated before...harmful substances and such are used in a great many of our products; knowing that we can have some control is the best motivation to provide the best home for our birds and for our families, as well.

Click to view attachment <----Tetrafluoroethylene (TFE)

Click to view attachment <-- Polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE)

Heres the deal with Teflon. Teflon is a polymer of TFE, called PTFE. The one above is 5 molecules of Tetrafluoroethylene. This polymer can be as long of a chain or as short of a chain as you want it to be. PTFE will not enter the air as fumes as most people believe. It is way too heavy of a molecule for that. TFE is the result of overheating PTFE and is the toxic chemical that everyone is concerned about. It is much lighter and passes through the air as gas very readily. This molecule is a CFC (Chlorofluorocarbon) and was originally being studied as a refrigerant. Everyone here knows that CFCs are very toxic and have been advised against for many many years. PTFE, the polymer, thus-far has no "confirmed" side effects. This is where the confusion comes in. Many articles have been written incorrectly and call TFE the polymer form PTFE. This is the problem with reading articles on the internet. Anyone can publish an article on the internet with no consequence to them if the information is wrong. It is best to stick to .gov and .edu publications, as well as peer reviewed articles. I would suggest the American Chemical Society (ACS) for publications on this matter.

Now, I read the article "Silent Killer" and it is a good example of misinformation. The first thing that struck me was the incorrect spelling of the chemical name Polytetrafluoroethylene (in the article it was spelled Polytetraflouethylene). It is also incorrectly referred to as Teflon fumes. Another mistake in the article is that Teflon will fumigate at 285 Degrees.... Now most people would automatically assume that this is 285 Degrees Fahrenheit. The actual number is 285 Degrees Celsius, or about 550 Degrees Fahrenheit. The funny thing is that this figure actually came from an article by DuPont themselves in 2000 and was not translated correctly in other articles, hence all of the commotion about the lower temperature causing harmful fumes.

Believe it or not, a pan can reach temperatures of over 720 Degrees Fahrenheit on an electric burner set on high in just 10 minutes. This is easily enough to release harmful fumes. Certain light bulbs especially Halogen can have a very high surface temperature that may cause the release of TFE. Also Halogen bulbs can release UV spectrum light which is suspected to be a catalyst to PTFE chain breaking.

So whats my take on all of this? Absolutely do not cook on Teflon pans when you have a bird. Its not worth the risk! While you may be able to get away with it at low heats, the risk is still there and very real. Also don't use Teflon coated bulbs near your bird. Thats also not worth the risk.

I really want to also stress that the internet can be a useful tool for obtaining knowledge, but it is also the biggest spreader of misinformation. Remember to stick to .gov, .edu and peer reviewed articles for information like this. I hope this post helped clear some things up. I'm not disagreeing that you should never use Teflon around your bird. TFE is very dangerous to inhale. I was just trying to show that you have to be careful about what you read on the internet because you never know when you will be given misinformation that may lead to the demise of your pet's health.

Thanks, Rapisardias, for this wonderfully informative post! It really does help to be able to understand some of what the whole picture is.

Woo hoo! check out the big brain on Rapisardius!(I wouldn't have noticed a spelling error in that word on my best day!) And I agree 100%. There is a lot of bad info floating around out there, but it is a known fact that non stick cookware kills birds. I always liked iron skillets anyway.
Thanks for the good report Rapi... good having "fact checks".

I don't know about all the "big" words or anything but my friend used teflon pans and was just cooking normally not overheating or burning just sauteing and her parakeet dropped dead in a matter of minutes from when she turned the stove on. The bird was young and in fine health so there was no other reason but the pans. I threw mine out. Small price to pay to keep my fids safe.

What I'm wondering is, what's a safe distance? Our house is unique in that our kitchen is it's own seperate room (much like a bedroom) off the hallway. The hall opens up into the big living room, where Marty's cage sits. You can hardly smell FOOD cooking from the living room..so I wonder if the fumes could reach. Especially with the exhaust fan on.

It depends on many things that determine how air flows between the stove and Marty, the quality of the air if/when it reaches him, and what his respiration rate is. Including but not limited to how humid it is in your home, whether windows are open, what amt of fumes accumulated, how large Marty is and whether he's sleeping (breathing slowly) or playing (breathing fast).

A 10-12 piece set of stainless steel cookware can cost less than $100. Large pyrex bakeware at the grocery store is about $10. Please don't gamble with your bird's life when it's so easy to be safe.

gail

Thank you for your input. My husband and I (I've said this several times) are a military couple, with 9 animals, who just bought our first house. The LAST thing on my husband's mind when he does our monthly budget is buying a new set of pots and pans. I have every intention of buying a new set as soon as we're a bit more comfortable.
I think for now I'll just move him to the other side of the house when we cook (which is mostly in the oven with glassware, anyway).

I wasn't meaning to imply that everyone should be able to run out and buy new cookware this afternoon. As a recent retiree still trying to adjust to a drastically reduced income, I surely appreciate the need for careful budgeting. But I'm certain with 9 animals, you're all too familiar with the need to dedicate some of your budget to care for those animals. Don't know what part of the country you live in, but here in the Washington DC region, it's a rare vet visit that doesn't cost me as much as that set of stainless steel cookware. Just to lend a little perspective.

Wishing you and Marty only the best, gail

A great place to get stainless steel cookware are Salvation Army type places. Since it lasts seemingly (or potentially actually) forever and people want the non-stick pans and don't take them when grandma dies (sadly, how I've acquired mine) there are a TON of great kitchen stuffs at those places. I've seen whole pot-and-pan sets for under $10 and whole mail-order-cuts-pennies-in-half knife sets for under $1. And as an added bonus, unlike say, a couch, it's completely sanitizable. I'm a little leery about getting something soft and hard to clean like a sofa or mattresses from that sort of place...

In that case, how do you tell the difference between stainless steel and non stick?

Non-stick pans have a coating on the cooking surface...you can definitely tell it is non-stick, whether it is Teflon, Silverstone, or whatever. Stainless Steel (and aluminum) are just metal, with a shiny (well, depending on how much use it has gotten) cooking surface. Stainless Steel cookware usually says it is SS, on the bottom...I say "usually" because there may be some that don't, but my experience is that it is more often the case that it does. Also, if you come across SS cookware with copper bottoms at a second hand store, grab them...they are probably Revere Ware and are among the best you can have! I have had some for years and I love them. You can shine up that copper bottom and make it look real nice...and it conveys the heat to the pan in a more efficient and even way.



By the way...I hadn't thought about going to a second hand store for pans and I think it is a great idea!! Thanks!!