I was thinking maybe we need to start a peer review group to address situations where a members posts become annoying to the point that other members find themselves at wits end or not wishing to participate as members anymore. I know of several former members who left for those kind of reasons. I have personally encountered this on a few occasions.

Get a panel of 4-6 people together to give recomendations to Shelly. Penalties could range from a warning to a suspention to outright bans.

I know we have our Mods, but they are busy making sure posts are appropriate and that threads don't go off the rails. Do you think a peer review group would serve any purpose whatsoever?

I just thought it would give people another avenue to air their grievences when they feel like going to a moderator would be like being a tattle tale.

Simply bring your problems to a peer and the group would come to a conclusion and give recomendations to a Moderator or Shelly.

That way if action needed to be taken it wouldn't feel like the police were coming down on you but a group of respected members giving guidance.

Thoughts?

It might work, but there would need to have specific guidelines to follow. And who is to choose the 4-6 people that would be on this panel?

I want to keep this forum an all inclusive forum and not make people think they aren't welcome...I don't want to see hurt feelings but I don't want good long or short term members to throw up their hands and leave because one or two people just don't play well with others.

This is supposed to be a learning forum and we all need to realize that in so being when advise is given its not meant as a put down or criticism.

We also must ALL learn that you can't expect different or better results if you keep making the same mistakes over and over again.


So I'm all for having something like you've mentioned but it would need to be done the correct way and still be inclusive not alienating if that's possible...

So what's everyone else think?

How should we go about picking the panel members if such a thing were to be approved and who does the choosing...do we leave it to the Moderators to decide or do we have an open nominating and voting poll?

Questions Questions....

I sometimes still feel like the new kid on the block so I am kind of not sure if I should be posting my opinion or not. I just see dangers in a peer review group due and it might actually cause more trouble than value. Thats just my opinion and I have seen entire forums go down with variations of the peer review due to the overwhelming popularity contest vs fairness..shrugs.

I think the best thing to do with members who feel alienated or upset about a certain thread is to remind them that they do not have to respond to it and there is a little feature that I was made aware of today that you can click to 'report' a questionable post. I know for myself I pick and choose who I respond to carefully. I refrain from 'feeding' hostile/mean spirited threads by not responding to them.

With that said the powers that be do indeed determine what happens next and I am guessing but not sure that its treated on an individual basis?

Ok well thats my two cents....

I have to agree with IMPy on this one. Having been here for almost 3 years on this forum and on the Delphi forum.......I kind of think there might be hurt feelings. I am thinking that there needs to be a moderator for this kind of thing. For just this kind of issue. That is my opinion............

I also wanted to add that maybe I am blind but I think the positive and great posts outweigh the problem posts. The problem posts seem like such a small minority of them in comparison to all the great posts I find on the forum. I can safely and honestly say that everyone I have contact with has been nice and friendly and I have actually learned alot too.
There is alot this forum has to offer and I was pleasantly surprised at how smoothly it works in contrast to other forums I am affiliated with.
For the most part I think its safe to say most ppl become addicted to it and come back over and over again?

call me dense but what do you mean by problem posts?

I agree 100% with IMPy. I think that the mods do an excellent job of moderating all the posts. I believe if you think there is going to be a problem with a post, just ignore it, you don't have to reply to it... just report it. I believe too many people "policing" the forum would cause more problems... there would be too many cooks in the kitchen!

Mods do a great job!

You know Impy, I too still feel like a new comer....But I do know that there have been a LOT of older members quit posting, I don't know the specific reasons, but I hate to think that its because of one or two members...

I think, and correct me if I'm wrong or over stepping UZ that what's being suggested is we have another group or panel in conjunction to the moderators that kind of monitor for stuff...discuss it amongst the panel members and then take it to the moderators to decide. It would be the moderators final decision to make any changes. Not the panel itself.

I think we have a great group as moderators but lets face it they can't all be on at the same time, thus the reason for having people in different time zones etc. But these people have lives of their own as well and can't spend every waking moment on the forum either.

Like I said, I want to keep this an all inclusive forum, And I realize that no one is going to get along with everyone, (well except me of course LOL NOT! )

But shouldn't we have a way to keep the occasional pest( for lack of better word at the moment) from chasing off a lot of great members?

I don't belong to any other forums, and I don't care to venture out to a lot of others just because of the horror stories I've heard...I don't want our forum to become a horror story either...

So how do we keep it from happening... Obviously some feel there is a problem or the topic wouldn't have been brought up... so come on all you older members that have only been lurking, how about you posting some thoughts on the subject.

Even better idea Sandi. Someone impartial who all members can feel safe aproaching knowing their concerns will be addressed in the most tactful manner.

Forum Sheriff.

As to how to chose. Let the moderators come up with a short list of candidates and put it to a vote.

Here I am ---Meet your new Forum Sheriff.... I like that word Uncle Zippy....Just kidding and I am lurking and taking it all in, no response from me.....I'll kinda rock along and not rock the boat too much and see what is going to happen...I have a general idea but I'll keep it to myself....

Everyone has valid points. I would be ok with anything. I am just voicing my opinion. I guess from the way I look at it the pests are dealt with quickly anyways. Remeber peanutbutter or the psycho post about how his quaker was attacking his grandpa and he was too old to stop him (tat particular post had to be someone with a lack of imagination)etc...they were removed as quickly as possible. Even with another group to discuss situations like that it would have to clear with the mods to be removed anyways and that too would be time consuming in my opinion.

Your right tho you cant please everyone. People are going to leave and some will stay. I would hope that people would see the value of the many over the one. I am pretty sure I havent seen all the action or growth that this forum has had in regards to problem people. In re to the problem ppl themselves sometimes I think they thrive on the attention so when you cut it off they go away anyways.

On a day to day basis when I read the posts I cant imagine people would leave because the forum was bad or they didnt like alot of people. Or maybe I am one of the bad ppl keeping them out I hope not! sheesh. Yet I just dont see it as a valid reason for leaving. Anywhere you go even in life outside of QP there are people that are going to be annoying. You cant keep moving. You just learn to deal with them.

Actually your sheriff is Shelly .. as it should be because she has the most to lose should the forum not continue to thrive and therefore is the most impartial. If you can't feel safe approaching Shelly or myself I'm not sure who you can feel safe approaching .. I can honestly say without a doubt we both have the forum's best interest in mind! With the forum's future in mind I believe we can both be very impartial given any situation. I also believe the QP.com forum staff are very impartial and truly discuss approaches to situations that hopefully improve the forum for everyone.

Although not referred to as "peer review" QP.com has a similar approach as what is being described but in private within the moderating team.

Most situations, approaches, resolutions etc are discussed off forum within the moderating team. This approach provides more then one point of view and ensures the privacy of the members involved. In some cases Shelly or myself will take action quickly when the action to be taken is clear and then discuss the situation with the moderating team afterwards ..

All situations are dealt with on an individual basis as they arise and resolutions are kept private. For instance if a member is being moderated only that member will know they are being moderated unless they choose to share it with another member ..

This forum is large, active and there is always something being dealt with. I personally believe that the process in place works well and is fair and impartial.

However as always, I will ensure that Shelly is aware of this thread for her review.

I don't understand this either and nobody really answered this question...

Renee NoellePosted Today, 10:37 PM




Ditto. I am a bit curious myself. In my sunny little world, everything on QP.com is warm and fuzzy 99.9% of the time.

My 2 cents! Well with the post that was deleted today (for a good example and Im sure whats being dicussed here) I can really see why Uncle Zippy feels the way he does in his feelings. I see Impys point but the post got so out of hand offensive... discussing private habits and living with other family members. I can definately see the point here.

I think given the situation existing right now on this board and the number of messages exchanged as well as the MANY thinly vieled attemts to get a point across, despite all the best intentions and in some casses some of the best diplomacy and honest attemps to help, I think the moderating team has dropped the ball.

If you haven't been made aware as a moderator, then that shows that no one wants to tell the "teacher". They want someone from their own ranks to go to. Let that person be the one to tattle to teacher. If enough complaints are brought forward then the message is passed to those higher up.

It was those feelings that drove me to start this thread in the first place. It's such a touchy situation. Everyone that wants to help has tried and failed. I don't even know why I haven't gone to a moderator. I can't explain it. It just makes me feel like a bad person for reporting something/someone to a moderator especially if that someone seems genuinely nice, but is causing problems.

Thats why I sugested what I did. If there was a designated person or group specifically to deal with things of this nature, then maybe I would be more inclined to step forward, for what I feel is in the best interest of the forum as a whole.

All I want is as harmonious environment as possible, same as everyone. Sometimes you have to cut out a cancer to save the whole body, or to keep it from spreading.

DOH! Doubled up. Uh..heh heh.

I disagree .. but can't share more then that as I won't get into the privacy of other members.



Many members come forward with issues via a PM and others click the "Report" link at the bottom of the posts. The Report link is anonymous unless you sign your name and the only ones who get the message are myself and Shelly.

Any complaints that come to the moderators is held in confidence and the moderators are the only ones who can do something about it .. so at some point somebody needs to come to a moderator ..



There is a designated group to deal with things of this nature ... the moderating team .. any forum assistant can be contacted who in turn will need to discuss with Shelly or myself to take additional action if required.



Agreed ... and unbeknownst to most issues are being dealt with almost daily at the same time respecting the privacy of those directly involved.

I truly believe the setup that Shelly has in place with the Forum Assistants works ..It is fair, done in private and impartial.

Members can approach any Forum Assistant with an issue or simply anonymously use the "Report" link on any post .. The issues are being dealt with and the members directly involved know what is going on.

Okey Dokey.

I don't read smilies well so not sure if a response is required ... but will just add that Shelly has been advised and asked to review this thread/discussion.

I don't doubt that the forum's best interest will be first and foremost in her decision process ...

I have to agree with Dee, the report button is your best tool for dealing with nasty posts or members, I've personally used it a few times and my requests have been dealt with by Dee or Shelly very quickly.

This forum is growing daily but it's still by far one of the friendlier online communities out there, we all have different opinions and can't always agree on everything and we're all entitled to our opinions. That being said, I think adding more mods or assistants would be unnecessary, more mods would mostly lead to censorship IMO

I didn't want to chime in on this topic last night when feelings were running high among those of us who saw the problem post. After sleeping on the situation, I just want to say that the internet is a cross section of humanity, with open access to all. Therefore, you get just that - and a few posters who are not in sync with the spirit of this forum. However, I must say as a relative newbie that it's a wonderful forum and the system works well. My impression is of a welcoming place with caring and knowledgeable people. I think the exceptions are clear, and in fact stick out like a sore thumb... No one who participates regularly would think those people represent the feelings of the forum overall. I think the frustration we all feel is when we see someone posting whose treatment of their birds does not match our knowledge and beliefs, and we are helpless to either change or help the situation - at least I know that is true for me. But that is a characteristic of the "anonymous" nature of the internet.

I trust the forum moderators to collaborate on the best approach to an upsetting post/poster. And I must say I truly appreciate this forum. Since I can't think of how to be part of the solution, at best I think we can just not be part of the problem, by trying not to respond in anger when we see something that - well, angers us. Descending to that level not only eggs on the situation but hurts everyone. Sometimes you just have to let go, let the existing system work, and realize you're frustrated but powerless. A hard thing for sure for people who care so much about birds - and others.

Well said Catherine and Rosanne.
Having no clue what prompted the original post last night, the mere title "Problem Members" was, to say the least- troubling. It concerned me; I was thinking "am I annoying the crap out of people?"
Anyone newer looking at this thread would likely have thought "cliquish", which is so far from the truth. Later in the thread it became clear that there was a problem "thread" that was perhaps viewed inappropriate by some.
Although these do pop up from time to time, like the two Impy pointed out, they are such the exception and are dealt with swiftly.

Hitting the "report" button is easy and effective. Censorship is not the answer to get different points of view over any given situation.

That being said, I so value this forum- to the point I do not wish to see anything change. Admittedly, I have not agreed with all posts, but we must always remember that we are a melting pot of personalities here, and we have many different beliefs, ideas and opinions. You name it, we have them. I have seen debates rage on here and still remain respectful which to me is remarkable. As an example, the one about the birds body parts on Ebay. There was some serious passion in people's belief yet no personal attacks and some excellent alternative points were made which broadened my thinking.

99.9% of the members on here have good intentions- that is to help one another and become more educated on the one thing we all have in common.

Shelly and Dee (and all the mods) have a great, open and welcoming forum and I want to personally say thank you for this wonderful resource. I have learned so much, and in the process I have been fortunate to become acquainted with some beautiful hearts.

Hmmmmm I must of missed the problem post last night, I was at my dad's for barbecued hamburgers (so if someone wants to clue me in via PM, I would greatly appreciate it).




Now I had NO idea that the Report button was anonymous, so if I may add another suggestion? Perhaps putting a more detailed thread (I know we have this one Admin Contact Info), or adding to that thread, that tells a member their options for putting in a complaint.

Now, I don't think I've ever used the Report button (I just go straight to the top and contact Shelly or Dee ), but it is good to know that it is anonymous, cause I didn't even know that and perhaps a lot of members don't either.

And if I may add one more thing. When a specific post is bothering me (and it doesn't happen often), I have no issues with contacting Shelly or Dee to bring it to their attention. I don't say 'remove the thread please!!', I just say 'you should be aware of this thread' and leave it at that. The reason why I do it is because if it bothers ME (which takes a lot), then I know it has to be bothering someone else.

I stand corrected ... I just checked the functionality and in this version of IPB the Report button is not anonymous. Shelly and I ONLY can see the username when the post is reported ... Actually, Shelly and I are the only ones who get the PM/Email from that function so it is the same as sending us a PM.

Having said that, the name of the person reporting the post would have no bearing on how we would approach the situation..

I agree with Dee 100%

We as a team HAVE to remain neutral and unbiased at all times. This is key to making this forum such a success. Actions are taken as Dee said that are appropriate to the situation.



With that said, I have nothing more to say.

I agree and if I am a problem I would appreciate it if someone told me and gave me a warning. This is only type after all and emotions can be miss read. I think we have a very good exec. and I leave it up to them.

Well I missed it all I guess. I never have a problem on here with anyone and If I do I roll it off my shoulders. Its not like i know you all that well and if I let what you say hurt me or make me mad man that would be a waste of time to me. So that being said no one has really bothered me or made me mad anyway I think are all pretty spiffy! If I get mad I will let you know nicely.

No You aren't a problem at all Zipper.... Just postings in general and if there was a problem you would have been notified....So you okay....







Bravo---That's the attitude...And I feel the same way..... Top of the day to you friend.....

If there's something posted, which I don't agree with, I try my best not to answer... I don't want to be banned...

sounds like your trying to creat your own social click
If you don't fit into the click to bad for you
if you do the we may answer your question

Wayne, you haven't been a member for very long, but I'm sure if you looked through past posts you would see that this is not the case at all.

This forum, as a whole, does its best to help ALL members. We don't pick and chose who we are going to respond to. We try to make sure every post gets answered.

The problems come when a member is continuously complaining or asking for help for the same issue and yet is not taking the advice given. That is very, very frustrating. It comes to the point where you have to ask yourself "Why bother to answer? S/he isn't going to listen anyways." Or, an answer is given and the poster takes offense and gets defensive. Again, it makes you want to throw your hands up in the air.

So many chose not to respond at all, those who do respond do it out of love for birds and wanting the well being of birds.

It has nothing to do with a clique. This forum is far from that.

I'm pretty sure that wasn't the intention of the post. From what I've seen (and I've only been here for a few months) the folks here go out of their way NOT to alienate others, even when they disagree or think they're dunderheads. I've been a dunderhead myself on here once or twice and have not been ostracised. Overall, I'm very impressed with this forum and those who populate it. I feel safe and comfortable here. I always miss the problem posts though. So although curiosity is eatin me alive about it, the mods are doing something right, otherwise, we'd all know what the heck happened. The fact that we don't speaks highly of our mods.

I don't reply to many post but I think If you get upset about someone's post or how many times they post don't read it.
I usally get on here and just read other people post on what they do with their Quakers
I'm new with quakers and I get a lot of good advice from people here. MAybe not from a direct response but just from reading their postings .
I THINK CALLING SOMEONE A PEST OR A CANCER IS GOING A LITTLE OVERBOARD.
The new parents on theis forum are not shore they are doing the right thing for their birds and may ask a lot of questions I think its normal .I just think its good that we all ask question regarding our pets . It helps keep them safe and happy.

I totally agree and we all help them out as best as we can. There is no question of that. Those posters are not what the problem is.

For those members that have been here for a long time, think about how many times they have seen the same question: "My bird is biting me, HELP!!". And yet, they will try to help every single time. Instead of just saying 'oh man, I just answer that yesterday!' and ignoring the question hoping someone else will deal with it.

This forum is about people helping people. But when people come to the forum and ask for help and you give it to them, and they completely ignore it over and over again...that is what becomes frustrating. You can only help those who are willing to help themselves. With bird issues, there are no quick solutions. It takes time and a lot of work and most of the time lots of pain. But, that's what being a bird owner is all about

Problem poster: Someone that consistently posts about situations that are NOT in the best interests of bird(s), and refuses to correct the situation.

No one wants to come on this site and read about birds being mistreated, through active abuse, neglect, or even benign neglect. At some point, if a person is aware that certain behavior is not in the best interests of a bird, repeating the behavior becomes abusive.

If a member has been give wonderful advice and continues to ignore it, to the point where several birds potentially suffer psychological or physical effects... I believe it is a problem to continue to allow that person use the forum.

They are not interested in the bird, they are interested in the companionship and the wonderful people here. Those things are fine, but NOT at the expense of a bird.

Allowing that person to post without addressing the abusive situation for their pets makes the forum culpable. Our kindness is allowing someone to justify abuse. It is allowing people to bring birds into a home that is not ready for them, at the expense of the bird, because that person feels like everyone here will help them deal with bird and if doesn't work out, that's okay, they just find it a new home and try again with another bird.


To me that's a very extreme situation. But it does happen. And I think that, for extreme situations, something ought to be done.

This isn't about members that bicker or people we don't care for, it's about our responsibility to make a good faith effort to ensure that birds whose lives are touched by this forum are touched in a positive way.

That almost always happens. But when it doesn't, then its very serious.

Great point!!!!!! I'm not sure that if you have difficulty "telling to the teacher" that it would be any different if there was a different board to report to. I guess I am a bit strange, but the few controversies that I have seen kind of peak my interest. There have been things said that I found distasteful, but I know that I am not the most diplomatic person, so choose not to respond in those cases. But it takes all types to make the world interesting, and we must learn to deal with them.

Oh, I would just to add that I almost NEVER see a situation warranting intervention. But it HAS happened (only once or twice) and it is ONLY because of a bird that I feel is being mistreated that I would ever want something like this to happen.

LOL...same here Carrie Anne. I have no clue as to what is going on, which I guess is a good thing... But...my curiousity is killing me, to be honest.

Well, here's my thought on the whole thing. The members have every opportunity to contact the assitant of their choice, and express your concerns. Members should NEVER feel like their being a tattle tale...that is ridiculous. If you have concerns about a member's behavior...you have the right to talk to an assistant. You have options as to which assistant you want to deal with...there are 4 of us, and 2 managers. I think as a whole we are very fair...and we do talk to each other quite a bit and no, we don't always agree on how to handle things...but as long as there are two people on earth there will always be conflict. It's HOW you resolve. So our peer group is basically in place. Members just need to make use of the system.

that is actually a great idea, so that way we can adress any concerns and other problems our members are having/feeling toward other members.

First and foremost the forum is in no more culpable for a member who doesn't follow our advice then it is culpable for a member who does. If there is a clear abusive situation then I would ask it to be pointed out privately... because otherwise it is speculation. Keeping in mind that what I may find abusive others may find acceptable ... For instance I find squirting a bird physically and emotionally abusive .. should we start banning anyone who squirts a bird because I find it abusive even though others find it acceptable?

I think this analogy is way overboard and to the extreme. Having said that, if a situation such as clear animal abuse exist then it should be pointed out and dealt with privately. Setting up a "Peer review" isn't going to solve it ...

You know, we continually profess to be the best bird resource on the net ... we need to walk the talk.... Being the best bird resource on the net means we need to have the ability to help the most difficult people/situations .. not ban or ignore them. As difficult as these types of situations are, we can only hope that if we continue to provide advice and direction that at some point it may sink in. On the other hand, what we all know for sure is that if someone is attacked they become defensive .. it is only human nature.

When that happens .. how have we helped the bird? Is that not why we are here?

With all due respect what I see happening with a so called "Peer Review" is similar to a kangaroo court or popularity contest ....

What confuses me is that in the past we debated the issue of "censorship" and now we are discussing "peer review" which would add a group of people who would censor members based on their definition of annoying.

Ultimately this is Shelly's decision .. I'm done ...

I don't even know that a peer review is the answer. I was just identifying the problem, as I saw it. I don't know what the solution is, but the issue is real.

And I've disagreed with a lot of people in the past about pet care and ownership, but I guess the frustration I'm feeling is not that I think the forum is fatally flawed or the mods aren't doing a good job. I just feel SO frustrated because there is a situation happening where I feel like some birds are being very mistreated and there is no real way to address it.

I'm not for censorship. I'm not for haphazard banning. But then there is this situation and I honestly feel like the environment of the forum (which is so nice) is drawing someone here, who then makes AWFUL decisions about their birds. And when people try to help, nothing changes. But I think this environment ends up encouraging them to make the same bad decision. The forums fault? No way! But if we could somehow stop it... I dunno. I think Ron and I just feel like we have to do SOMETHING, not that everyone has failed and the forum stinks. I LOVE this forum. And I think we have a super moderating team. Truly. But this is such an unusual situation.

So here my heart is breaking and I'm wishing there was some way to keep the person from posting the SAME horrible situation over and over with no change.

So that's my take. I'm not upset with any moderators or bashing the board, I just want to brainstorm ways to help some birds.

You're not the only one, Becky. It is very frustrating when someone consistently complains, asks for advice, receives the advice and then ignores it. When that happens 3 or 4 times it comes to the point where you have to ask yourself. Is this even worth it??? For some people, nope, it's not. Those people will no longer help that person. For others, they feel that they have to help in order to help the bird. There is no right or wrong response either. Either way, you feel as if you are banging your head up against a brick wall.

I have to agree with Dee on this one.

I find it amazing that the place I learned tolerance from, is now preaching intolerance.

We have to learn to tolerate each others differences and embrace what we can find about each member that is good. Each of us is a duel personality, made up of both good and evil. If we separate them what is left?

I agree with you Cheryl your point is so right. I think the answer is we can choose to answer or walk away and not bother and get emoitionally involved! I can learn from this whole post as well...we all can!

Due to some comments in this post, I can see that I am one of the problem posters. It's rather obvious, in fact. I do think the moderators of this board are doing a great job alone without a peer group. I like the fact that they are discrete about it, which helps, too.

I will try to be less of a problem.

Angela

As frustrating as it may be I think it is always worth it ... At the very least if the person(s) in question continues to return then at some point the advice given may sink in and a bird may be better for it. Alternatively turning someone away simply because helping them is frustrating doesn't help the bird .. and that is why most of us came here in the first place.

For those who find the situation frustrating and won't help then I would suggest not to post .. On the otherhand the person asking for the advice or posting a complaint should be prepared to hear something they may not want to hear ... As long as the advice is given without attacking ..

JMO...Although it would be nice if we never had any problems they are inevitable and it's important to have a great back up system (which we have). I think the system works well set up the way it is. If we have a problem then they seem to get taken care of in a timely manner. Everyone is doing a great job at reporting problem threads and the moderators are great at getting a problem thread back on the right track, shutting them down, or deleting them. I think if problems persist repeatedly with any member then the mods should reprimand as they see fit...which I think they already do.




Dee, that reminds me of that song by Martina McBride...Do It Anyway....I love that motto.

JMHO Time to take this post down before anymore feelings are hurt or something is said and taken the wrong way. The moderators are true and stable and do a great job, get too many hands in the pot and more problems crop up. Time to let this one die. JMHO