Hey guys,
I am planning on getting a puppy in about 6 weeks or so. I lost my standard poodle, Stanley, early in the summer, and have missed him sooooo much. I am looking into poodle mixes including labradoodles, as well as other mixes. I read that labs, since they are bird dogs, love birds.
Pickles cage is sturdy but set low so that he is below the head of my youngest child (7). Pickles often came nose to beak with Stanley, lunged and maybe scraped a nose, but had no big run ins.
The puppy will be young, 8 to 12 weeks or so.
Any ideas on how to keep my Pickles safe? I never let Pickles out when Stanley was around, and won't have the puppy out with the bird either
Thanks,
Rachael

First, I'm sorry to hear of the loss of Stanley. Losing any pet is a very hard experience.

Second, I'd be cautious of looking for a "bird dog" under the assumption that they then love birds... since that means that they are good and like to HUNT birds. When "bird dogs" hunt pheasants or ducks, for example, they aren't always dead when the hunter shoots them out of the air. Therefore, when they retrieve the birds, they instinctively grab the bird by the neck, and shake the bird violently to ensure the quick death of the bird. Though I have never owned an actual "hunting dog", I have had a couple of dogs that would grab their toys in that manner, so even though they aren't "trained", they have that instinct. So, I wouldn't equate a "bird dog" as a dog that "loves birds".

As far as keeping Pickles safe, you must begin training immediately upon bringing the puppy into your home. Always, ALWAYS let the dog know that the bird(s) are OFF limits.

I have a miniature schnauzer who loves my birds (we got her when she was only 8 weeks old, so she's been around them pretty much all of her life). She especially loves my GW Macaw, Ferris. She will sit at the bottom of his cage, and he will bring his beak down to her level. She will sniff him, and he normally just backs away. She does the same with our cockatiel, Gracie. She's a little fearful of Red (the quaker), just because Red is the one that normally will go after her, lol. She doesn't try to sniff her much, hehehe.

Just remember that animals can NEVER be completely trusted alone together. It only takes a split second for disaster to strike, and it can't be undone. Red is always out of her cage on her playstand, and Luka (schnauzer) is always out as well. But, Red normally doesn't leave her playstand, and I'm always in the same room with them. When Luka was really young (she just turned a year old), I always took her with me if I left the room, in case Red would fly down for some reason. Now, she pretty much still follows me everywhere, but I am a little less afraid, since I've watched Red get spooked by something and fly to the floor, and Luka runs away from her. Also, Red immediately hides under her cage (where Luka can't get) when she flies to the floor. But, I'm still constantly aware of where the animals are at all times. I hope that makes sense.

Good luck on your search, and on introducing the new puppy to the family.

My suggestion is that if you want a "lab" then get one but have it as an outside dog.
I have 2 labrador retreivers and I LOVE MY DOGS but these type of dogs need LOTS OF ROOM TO RUN and
they wouldn't have it any other way. Yes, they LOVE BIRDS, "love to eat them that is" I have seen
my black lab actually leap and catch a bird right out of the air".

I wouldn't think it safe for your birds to have this type of dog inside no matter what. They are dogs
and by instinct can change on the drop of a dime. Smaller dogs are better but with any dog, I think it dangerous
for the birds.

My situation is I have OUTSIDE BIG DOGS that we spend time with outiside and are inside animals (birds, rabbits, etc)
all have their own space inside and can stay out all the time without the danger of another animal attacking them.

It makes it really nice to have it this way. You are in that situation now, I would recommend considering changing
to an outside dog. This is only my opinion because it works best for me, but I would respect your decision as
to what works best for you as well.

good luck with whatever you decide.

I am a Standard Poodle owner and am sorry to hear of your loss. I don't know if you are aware or not, but Standard Poodles are also a "bird dog" they were bred for retrieving just like Labs were. My dog, Savannah, is three years old. I had her (and dogs in general) long before I had birds. I have never had a problem with her wanting to eat any of them. I'm not trying to say that this is because she is a Standard Poodle. It is because she is a well trained, well behaved dog. She knows that the birds are off limits. Does that mean that I would ever leave her around the birds unsupervised? Absolutely not.

I honestly do not think that any dog will be better with birds because they are a certain breed. Of course there are breeds like terriers which are more likely to go after a prey animal than others, but in the end it all comes down to the individual dog and their training.

Since you are getting a puppy, it will be far easier for you to teach him/her how to behave around your parrot. I am not saying that it is impossible to teach an adult dog this, since as I said, my dog was an adult before I ever got birds. However, it is easier to train a puppy with no bad habits than it is to reteach a dog who already has them.

As for the suggestion that you keep the dog outdoors, I don't agree with that and I'm sure many other members wouldn't either. Dogs are pack animals and being outside at all times is far too solitary a life for any dog.

I wish you the best of luck in finding a puppy Please feel free to let me know if there is anything that I can help you with. I was a dog person long before I was a bird person lol.

I think you should just play it by ear. See how both the dog, and your bird, react to each other. The dog shouldn't be able to reach the bird at all though, as this can tend to make a bird uncomfortable (but seeing as how your bird is already used to dogs, maybe this won't be as much of a bother for him).

Considering your getting a puppy, I bet the puppy can be trained to leave the bird alone. But, you will have to be diligent in watching the dog to make sure he isn't acting inappropriately around the bird.

Good luck.

We have a Lab and a basset inside and both were already here when Clyde joined the family. We spent the first two weeks, at least, telling Gigi (the Lab) to "go lay down" every time we had Clyde out of his cage and the first few days we even took turns holding her collar and saying stuff like "he belongs here, don't mess with the bird, be a good girl." We kept his cage up well out of her reach and if she so much as looked at him, we said no, no, don't mess with the bird, go lay down. She's a good girl and her one mission in life is to do what we want her to do once she's figured out what that is, while George (the basset) wants food, belly rubs and walks, in that order, and hasn't lots of interest in anything else. He was completely oblivious to Clyde.

We still don't trust her completely, of course, but a couple of times Clyde has decided to take a flight around the house and since Gigi has learned she's not to mess with him, she usually doesn't even look up when he does that, and she's never offered to chase him or bother him.

HOWEVER ... That's her personality. She only wants to please us. If she were more independent, and had been taught to hunt, I wouldn't trust her even as far as I do around Clyde. Labs are hunting dogs, and birds are what they hunt. We never leave Clyde out when we're not right here and Clyde seldom flies, because he wants to be on a shoulder or in his cage.

Dogs are pack animals and they want to be with their people all the time. If you want your dog to be in the house, where he can spend his time with you, I wouldn't get a hunting dog. A mutt would probably be best -- they're almost always really smart. And if you get a puppy, you can teach him from the start not to bother your bird.

Sorry to hear about the loss of Stanley!

It'll be easier to train a puppy that birds are off bounds compared to an older dog who is already set in his ways (although we adopted Gaston when he was 1.5 years old but he's never shown any interest in Casey, other than running away, lol) You'll just have to be very firm with the new puppy when it comes to what he can and cannot do around the bird... but puppies are naturally curious and playful so just be careful. As long as you make yourself the alpha dog (we did many exercises with Christy when she was a puppy to learn who was alpha) and teach him what is acceptable he should quickly learn what he can and can't do. Once he learns all the rules and grows up and becomes less hyper hopefully they will get along nicely like Casey and our dogs! Overall, just watch how the new puppy reacts to Pickles...

Like the others have said if they are a 'bird dog' it means they are good at hunting birds. I think with the proper training any dog could be trained to leave the birds alone, but there are some types that have a higher prey drive.

I'm not a fan of the labradoodles or golden doodles, every one that I have met has been insanely hyper, like regular puppy on crack! If you are looking into labs, read up on Golden Retrievers, they are excellent dogs and usually have a fantastic easy going nature, we've had Christy for almost 13 years now and she is amazing!!! Kids can grab her and she won't flinch, other dogs can jump all over her and she couldn't care less, Casey could land on her by accident and she'll barely lift her head. I'd highly recommend a Golden!


I too disagree about keeping the new puppy as an outside dog. We just had a debate about this on another forum... I think it depends on the dog/situation but I know I would never, ever have an outside dog and I don't agree with it but to each their own I guess. I also disagree about smaller dogs being better, I think they are more hyper and jumpy in general and would do more accidental harm. Dogs are trainable to cohabitate with other animals. Our dogs have free run of the whole house and Casey is out almost all day long (unless we have to go out then she is caged) they pay no attention to Casey, Gaston is terrifed of her and Christy and Kipper couldn't care less. Christy loves all animals, as a puppy she would chase squirrels in our yard but then come inside and let our baby Guinea Pigs run around on the floor with her, so I disagree about them being dangerous and unable to live in the same house as other animals.

Good luck on choosing your new puppy! Looking forward to hearing all about him/her!

Sorry to hear about your loss.........I lost my best friend, next to Kiwi, last year in Sept. she was 14 yrs old. She got a long great with Kiwi and Gidget. She didn't bother them at all, but she was a great little vacumn cleaner. I miss her so much.

Last year in November we got a little Black Lab Puppy. We kept him in the house for waaaaaaay tooooooo many months. But anyway, the birds didn't get to get out of their cage as much, because our Lab, Coal was not an outside dog. Now that we have moved. YaY!!, Coal spends ALL day outside and at night he has a crate in the garage. The FIDS are so much happier now because they can be out all day and Coal is handled. Coal will be 1 year old on Aug. 25th.

Our lhasa, Bailey was three years old when we got Remy and I worried about them alot at first, but Bailey is pretty well behaved, so we haven't had any problems so far. Of course, Remy kinda got his bluff in early on, haha! Bailey learned pretty quick that she would get a sore nose if she messed with him!!

I can't speak on the cross breeding between labradors and poodles as there is no way to know which character the breed would actually have .. I personally don't believe in cross breeding so won't get into that subject .. lol

But I do have a labrador retriever that lives in the house with us (his pack).. I personally believe that labradors as pets (not working dogs) aren't meant to be outside dogs as their entire life's ambition is to be with their owner .. but that is my opinion.

Labradors are not bird dogs .. they are retrievers/gun dogs. They are working dogs that retrieve game for their owners and in most cases if trained properly it is done with a soft mouth retrieve (no teeth in the game so there is no injury to the carcass). A well mannered/trained labrador will act on command to please their owner and shouldn't even care about the presence of your birds (ours doesn't). Having said that our dog and birds never physically interact and are never in the same room together unsupervised.

Given time and commitment labradors are very easy to train .. and I believe obedience training is a must even for simple every day life. They are large dogs and as friendly as they are, without training they can be hard to manage. Keeping in mind that most labrador retrievers don't mature until they are about four years old.

Our labrador is obedience trained (CD) and has been trained not to chase anything. He can sit in our backyard surrounded by the birds, rabbits, chipmunks etc and they just walk around him .. I don't think there is a need to allow a domestic animal to take chase when it is for the thrill. Although our dog is very well trained NOT to take chase, just in case we have also trained him to retrieve on command and rewarded him for soft mouth retrieves (using soft mouth dummies). That way even if he did pick something up he wouldn't bite into it.

We also employ the alpha role with our dog. Everyone in our house including the birds are ahead of him in the pack. Even the birds are fed before he is .. etc

I would also like to note that our labrador was 3 years old when we got our first bird and already had his CD and was well trained .. He was already trained NOT to chase so the birds being in our home meant nothing to him. We started training at 13 weeks old.. So that could make a difference as well ..

A couple things to keep in mind ..

• Obedience Training -- Labradors are large dogs that don't mature until about 4 years old -- they require a lot of attention and training to enable them to coexist in their pack. Obedience training is a must with a dog like a labrador retriever. Most labrador retrievers that are in rescues are as a result of being unruly as their owners didn't take the time to train them and could no longer handle them
• Crate training -- crate training a puppy is not only the best way to house train your pup but keeps him/her safe when you aren't home. I know some people with labradors that have their dogs in crates when they aren't home and at night even as adults. Unlike what some think, crate training is not a bad thing .. dogs are den animals so being in a crate can also provide them with a sense of security.
• Access -- Block access to the birds when dog is loose and you aren't watching. We have a birdroom and even when the birds are in their cage their is a baby gate across the door. The dog is never allowed in the birdroom period .. he is trained to stop at the door even if I am in there and the gate is down.
• Chase -- You can train your dog NOT to chase .. that would take away the attraction that a flying bird would bring
• Soft Mouth -- You can also teach soft mouth retrieves on command to ensure that if he did pick something up he wouldn't bite into it
• Supervision -- Even with all the training which would clearly reduce the chance of accidents .. the birds and the dog should never physically interact and should never be together unsupervised. Things happen quickly and it only takes a second ..

As with our birds, our training with our lab never ends. Training is part of our everyday life with Chuck and we employ the different obedience commands (verbal and sign) and soft mouth retrieves regularly. (sit, stay, heel, down, come, place etc ..) He is never allowed to lay in a doorway, we walk through the door first, we are all fed before he is etc ..

Sorry .. I don't know much about the character of a poodle but they are also gun dogs but not sure how easy they are to train ..

Good Luck with your research .. I hope some of this was helpful ..

Sorry to hear about the loss of your doh
You've been given some awesome advice! As an owner of a lab that just turned three I can vouch that serious obediance training will be in order. You'll need to know when you tell your dog to stay (meaning do not move a muscle lol) they will obey 100% or else if your bird ever flies to the floor and as big dog is near you'll be in for several very nervewrecking experiences...
Our Simon is more mature now but asa puppy and most days still that best way to describe him is being neurotic.. he can be seriously looney and have bundles of energy..

While he is calming down my main fear with him isn't attacking the bird (Kiwi has nibbled on him several times) my main fear is Simon will inadvertenly roll or move or something is crush our lil feahtered chicken... So.. I think dogs are safer with birds then cats and as a pet and not being trained for hunting a lab will be just fine with strict rules to follow...that being said if you intend to have a hunting dog your qp will never be safe with a lab.. their retrieving instinct is just so strong that once training starts to catch something flying... *Shudders*

The best way to keep Pickles safe with your new edition is to never ever let them alone together. Good luck on your decision! I don't envy you.. SImon was much more mature when we got our Kiwi...

Tmorehanks for all of your advice!!
I know that I would never let the dog and bird out together, just as I never let Stanley out with Pickles. I was just wondering about how they would interact while the bird was in the cage.
As for the breed, I loved Stanley (Standard Poodles are a very special breed with a great history in hunting, therapy work, service dogs, and have even been used for sled dogs). My problem is, my husband has said no more big dogs to groom. I was looking for another type of dog that would have the same size, similar temperment, and less shedding. I know purest folks like some poodle people or lab people think their breed is perfect as is, and I agree. I would never pay a huge price for a crossbreed designer dog. However, I do want to get something that will go well with my family, and as I said, I loved Stanley's personality!! I don't want an outside dog. Stanley slept in my room in his bed and was crated while we were away. He was trained for therapy and had his good citizen certification. To replace him will be very difficult!
Pickles says he really doesn't care, as long as the dog doesn't get it's big nose in his space. He will nip through the bars and probably learn to call the dog pretty quickly.
He yells at my middle child right now, so now I know which of the three I yell at the most!
Thanks for all the sympathy. As you all know, animals become part of the family, and you worry about them just as you would sibilings.
Rachael

Labs shed a lot. Even though they claim that Labradoodles don't shed, many of them do...a lot. They also do require grooming. I know how expensive it can get to have a Standard Poodle groomed, that's one reason why I groom my dog myself. Standard Poodles are really the only breed of that size that I can think of that don't shed much. When it comes to grooming or dealing with shedding, I'm not sure which I would pick lol. There are other gun dog breeds that probably don't shed as much as Labs. Curly Coated Retrievers come to mind, but I don't know a whole lot about them. Good luck in your decision!

Labrador retrievers shed quite a bit .. I sweep up a litter almost daily .. They have short coats but very thick with many layers ... We brush Chuck almost daily at times.